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Dino Science Forum Early Dec. 2001: Scientific Discussion of Dinosaurs

This forum is for the scientific discussion of dinosaurs and other related paleontological topics.
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On Triceratops, there are some really fasinating things to note. In contrast to old arguments of Triceratops galloping at 45 kilometers an hour, recent looks into it's limbs, which have the front limbs sprawing (which have been poorly understood anyway, having reconstructed with some hardosaur parts in the first place!) indicate that this was quite a slow animal indeed. Not painfully slow, but no where being able to gallop or charge a Tyrannosaur sucessfully. That removes it's main and most commonly assumed method of defense, by charging a Tyrannosaurid. The horns are another problem, though impressive, were positioned quite far out of the way to be brought in usefully in a pitch (the animal had to lower it's head a great deal, totally removing it's targer from sight, leaving it ignorant and vulnerable to attack if the predator sidesteps of moves out of the way). A lone Triceratops would have little chance of standing up to Tyrannosaurus one-on-one, but one thing about the animal was that it could most likely change facing extremely fast, so the idea of Triceratops defense was more passive then active, constantly facing the predator rather then charging (assuming the predator didn't have the advantage of surprise). A charging Triceratops would most likely miss the target and get flanked anyway. I believe Triceratops was more of a team-player in survival, rather then an animal capable of taking on Tyrannosaurus one-to-one.
from Honkie Tong, age 17, ?, ?, ?; December 16, 2001


"but it's thighn bone is longer than it's shin bone making it a slow runner"

I really wonder where you are getting this from, because Tyrannosaurus had extremely gracile limbs, measurement for measurement, compariable to that of modern ostrichs. If you want to look at an animal with extremely long upper limb bones and short shins, look at the raptors, commonly and misguidedly considered "fast" runners. I wonder where on earth Horner got his "measurements" for Tyrannosaurid limbs from anyway. when he was immediately refuted by another paleontologist who had done specialized work in that matter, Tom Holtz.
from Honkie Tong, age 17, ?, ?, ?; December 16, 2001


Another less-known Edmontosaurus fossil actually had a T.rex tooth fused in a healed over bite mark in it's pelvis, just for you to know.
from Honkie Tong, age 17, ?, ?, ?; December 16, 2001


"OH PLLLEEAAASSSEEE REX HUNTED ANKLOSAURS ALL HE HAD TO DO WAS STEP ON THEM THERE WERE NOT TALL AT ALL SCIENTEST SAID REX BODY WAS DESIGNED FOR A QUICK FLEXIBILTY AND WAS ABLE TO DODGE ANKYS SWING WITH ITS CLUB LIKE TAIL REAL GOOD THERE ARE ANKYS SKEKETONS THAT SHOW NIG PREDATORS THAT STEP ON IT WITH ITS WEIGHT CRUSHING ITS SHELL AND OTHER SHIT LIKE THAT"

I don't think a T Rex standing on an Anklyosaurus would do much (if any) damage to the anklyosaurus. Anklyosaurus armor was VERY strong and the T Rex would probably get stabbed by the spikes on anklyosaurus's armor. And it would be very hard for a 12 meter long T Rex to dodge the anklyosaurus's tail and the t Rex wouldn't risk it anyway because if the anklyosaurus did get the T Rex it could easily kill the T Rex.
from Tom G, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 16, 2001


OH PLLLEEAAASSSEEE REX HUNTED ANKLOSAURS ALL HE HAD TO DO WAS STEP ON THEM THERE WERE NOT TALL AT ALL SCIENTEST SAID REX BODY WAS DESIGNED FOR A QUICK FLEXIBILTY AND WAS ABLE TO DODGE ANKYS SWING WITH ITS CLUB LIKE TAIL REAL GOOD THERE ARE ANKYS SKEKETONS THAT SHOW NIG PREDATORS THAT STEP ON IT WITH ITS WEIGHT CRUSHING ITS SHELL AND OTHER SHIT LIKE THAT
from screw spino, age 19, dc, dc, usa; December 16, 2001


OH PLLLEEAAASSSEEE REX HUNTED ANKLOSAURS ALL HE HAD TO DO WAS STEP ON THEM THERE WERE NOT TALL AT ALL SCIENTEST SAID REX BODY WAS DESIGNED FOR A QUICK FLEXIBILTY AND WAS ABLE TO DODGE ANKYS SWING WITH ITS CLUB LIKE TAIL REAL GOOD THERE ARE ANKYS SKEKETONS THAT SHOW NIG PREDATORS THAT STEP ON IT WITH ITS WEIGHT CRUSHING ITS SHELL AND OTHER SHIT LIKE THAT
from screw spino, age 19, dc, dc, usa; December 16, 2001


if megaraptor was bigger than Utahraptor, I beleive it would be about 9-10 feeet tall.
from Evan, age 12, ?, ?, ?; December 14, 2001


It went for the easiest targets"
Of course. No matter how strong and powerful a predator is, it always tries to go for the easiest meal.

from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 14, 2001


"healed over grooves"

Oh, sorry, I think the trike pelvis was from a trike that didn't escape, or was scaevnged.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 14, 2001


"Then start believing, for such a specimen has been known for sometime now."

You're absolutely correct Ten - Shun. But it's nowhere near the only specimen! There's a triceratops femur, (or pubis, I can't remeber,) with T - Rex tooth marks, and a trike frill with T - Rex tooth dents.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 14, 2001


"Plus, all the scintific evidence...."

What "scientific evidence"? I hope you are not referring to the dribble Horner spews out. Yes, there is evidence of T.rex feeding on its contemporaries, Triceratops and Edmontosaurus; but whether it killed them or not is very difficult to conclude.

"...points to the fact that TRex was a scavenger."

Studies on the energy needs of a 6 1/2 ton adult Tyrannosaurus rex indicate that it would be impossible to meet its needs on an purely scavenger lifestyle. It would simply not find enough meat before it expired of hunger.

"If we ever uncover a dinosaur with healed over grooves in its bones from a TRex tooth, then I'll be a believer."

Then start believing, for such a specimen has been known for sometime now. And I quote :
"Carpenter, on the other hand, has provided solid proof of predaceous behavior, in the form of an unsuccessful attack by a T.rex on an adult Edmontosaurus. The intended prey escaped with several broken tailbones that later healed. The only animal with the stature, proper dentition, and biting force to account for this injury is T.rex." (Scientific American Book of Dinosaurs, Breathing Life into Tyrannosaurus Rex, p.274)

from Ten-Shun, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 13, 2001


I don't think it would be worth the TRex's time or energy to hunt down trikes. It was just too dangerous of a proposal. Predators in the wild get knocked down and run over all the time. Such a fall could be fatal for TRex. It was most likely a scavenger. However, that doesn't mean that it was not a dangerous dinosaur. Plus, all the scintific evidence points to the fact that TRex was a scavenger. If we ever uncover a dinosaur with healed over grooves in its bones from a TRex tooth, then I'll be a believer.
from Adam, age 19, ?, ?, ?; December 13, 2001


"trex is my third favorite dinosaur now. what's this about it attacking slow prey?"

It probably tried to pick off slower individuals. It went for the easiest targets, it's quite logical to do that, from it's point of view. Even if it had ultra - powerful jaws.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 13, 2001


"the t-rex did have the most powerful bite of all time, but it's thigh bone is longer than it's shin bone making it a slow runner"

Yes, but it had very powerful, strong, and gracile legs, so it probably didn't run very fast, about 34/kmh (still much faster than an olympic sprinter;) but could probably maintain it's speed for a long time, it probably ran down hadrosaurs and trikes, when they where dropping of exhaustion the jaws of T - Rex where upon them.

I have this "theory." When lions hunt buffalo, a very strong and dangerous animal, responsible for many human deaths, they try to panic the herd, break it up and make it run. If the buffalo stand up to the lions, the lions can't do much, but if the lions succeed in panicking the buffalo, and they stampede, the lions can pick off a slow andividual, separate it from the herd, and bring it down. So T - Rex probably roared at trikes, to scare them and make them stampede. It couldn't stand up to an angry wall of horns, but if the trikes ran away, the T - Rex could keep up behind them. Trikes had short, robust, but strong limbs, so they could probably maintain speed for a short while. When individuals start to tire, and end up at the back of the herd, separated, the T - Rex could strike, bringing it's super - powerful jaws into play.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 13, 2001


"hey da masta, sorry about all the stuff I said.do you really think that a spinosaurus could beat a t-rex?"

[scratches head]

When did I say that? I don't think Spino can beat T - Rex.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 13, 2001


trex is my third favorite dinosaur now. what's this about it attacking slow prey?
from Diloph, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 12, 2001


the t-rex did have the most powerful bite of all time, but it's thigh
bone is longer than it's shin bone making it a slow runner

from DanW, age ?, ?, PA, USA; December 10, 2001


hey da masta, sorry about all the stuff I said.do you really think that a spinosaurus could beat a t-rex?
from DanW, age ?, ?, PA, USA; December 10, 2001


Tyrannosaurs where like any predator, just a bit more powerfull.

I think they where very careful when they hunted, and went for unprotected young or disabled individuals.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 9, 2001


"Actually, it's quite easy for T-Rex to kill an Ankylosaurus."
An INFANT, yes. But not an adult.

from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 7, 2001


A good deal of Ankylosaurid fossils are found flipped on their back though!
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 7, 2001


Actually, it's pretty easy for Tyrannosaurus to defeat Ankylosaurus. Ankylosaurus may be 3 tons heavier then Tyrannosaurus, being built for bulk, but the trick is getting to that size. When it was young, Ankylosaurus most likely suffered massive losses before getting to the adult stage, when their armour was not thick enough and they were too slow to run away. When young, Ankylosaurus must have been incredibly vulnerable, lacking the speed to run away and having the protective parent (if they had any) too slow to handle an attack from a Tyrannosaurus. No wonder they were rare. Prehaps Ankylosaurus didn't take care of it's young at all, it just laid a mighty number of eggs to leave to the predators, in hope that at least one or two would make it through.
from Leonard, age 14, ?, ?, ?; December 7, 2001


I am not starting a battle or debate.I mean some scripts I saw were certainly not good.Some t-rex fans,long time ago said that all dinos became extinct because t-rex ate them up I don't think that is educational.Its always t-rex here and there every dinosaur would lose.The only other type of dinosaur able to defeat it,is another tyrannosaurus.Why did dinos grow amour and stuff?They weren't useless you know.Would tyrannosaurus be able to survive a large number of scrathes blows and stabs all at once?
from Donovan c, age 12, ?, singapore, ?; December 5, 2001


Yes, I concur with John. I think Ankylosaurus could be too much for a T-Rex, judging by the armor and club tail. One of the few ways T-Rex could have killed an Ankylosaurus would be to flip it over, but that would be difficult. Of course, T-Rex didn't try to hunt Ankylosaurs, unless it was starving...
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 4, 2001


"Was there any dinosaur that could beat t-rex?"

Out of the many dinos found, there is very little that could kill t-rex. The only thing that could probably kill t-rex is other t-rex's. If a t-rex was juvinall then more dinos would have a better chance. Triceritops probably could kill rex accasionally, and the same for anklysaurus, I don't think rex would try to kill an anklasaurus though. That's probably it until new dinos are discovered.
from T-master, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 4, 2001


Yeah, everything can beat a T-rex....when they're hatchlings of course. When you mean adult I think other rexes or maybe triceratops(though more ofen rexes kill them)because if they never died they would still be around today.
from Diloph, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 4, 2001


"Is there any dinosaur able to defeat t-rex?"

Not fairly and squarely, T.rex could easily kill almost any dinosaur it faced (including the supersauropods). The only animal I can think of that can put up solid resistance to T.rex is Ankylosaurus and co., who were specicalized themselves to the extreme to defend themselves against T.rex. But even they were not entirely immune to Tyrannosaurus.
from John, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 4, 2001


Is there any dinosaur able to defeat t-rex?
from Donovan c., age 12, ?, singapore, ?; December 3, 2001


"mostly ever t-rex found has at least on trike horn in it."

Really? All the T.rex fossils I know haven't been noted to show this feature, you should think it makes the news.

"Don't get me wrong, I ment the Trike frill in the T-Rex corpolite. If paleontologists really did find evidence that a T-Rex had bitten through a Trike frill I would believe that."

Actually, I think they were refering to one Triceratops skull with a huge chunk taken out of the frill from a Tyrannosaurus rex bite (just about the only animal that can do that). Some have speculated that the bite was actually caused by the Tyrannosaurus when it bit a Triceratops on the head in defense to prevent itself from being stabbed during an attack. But notice the word here is speculated.

"It is the thug community that is made proud by abuse."

I don't want to say this but look who's talking?
from Honkie Tong, age 17, ?, ?, ?; December 3, 2001


Don't get me wrong, I ment the Trike frill in the T-Rex corpolite. If paleontologists really did find evidence that a T-Rex had bitten through a Trike frill I would believe that.
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 3, 2001


Actually, the Triceratops frill isn't evidence that T-Rex killed the Trike, because the T-Rex simply could have chewed up a dead Trike it found! But I firmly believ a T-Rex could kill a Triceratops.
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 3, 2001


I would a that @ hotmail. com I had ever give me heart attack people like that summerization soul to us never expect the truth

you bigf bully
from 132-Jtong, age 12, B. c, B.c., Bristh C; December 3, 2001


A triceritops would be a tough challenge for rex, mostly ever t-rex found has at least on trike horn in it. but then again, a lot of trikes found have rex bites in them. T-rex had an awsome bite, and could slice through trike bones like a knife going through butter. Triceritops probably killed rex but not as many times as rex killed triceritops. And a ton of rex dung has had trike bone. But through many movies and stories, triceritops and rex have been arch enemeys.
from T-master, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 2, 2001


I don't think I can respect Triceratops, it's hard to respect an animal you had to dig out of fossilized dung.
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 2, 2001


"T-rex couldn't manage to defeat an angry Triceratops on the run,didn't it? Please welcome the new king of the dinosaurs."

Sadly, you spoke too soon. Apparently T-Rex was more powerful as you thought as they found Triceratops frill bones in its dung. Man, you have to be one tough and cool dino to do that to a Triceratops, being able to bite through its frill and then survive to pass it out. A Triceratops skull has been also found with a T-Rex bite mark that destroyed a large area of the frill. Scientists determined that the wound was caused while the animal was alive and during its last fight, where the T-Rex bit it on the head FROM THE FRONT to prevent itself from being stabbed, apparently it was sucessful for the Triceratops was found throughly eaten and no sign of any T-Rex fossils around indicated that T-Rex took no losses in that fight. Yup, Triceratops died constantly under T-Rex. Hardly call Triceratops a king, it was among the most dangerous of herbivores but hardly a match for T-Rex. T-Rex probably got a 100:1 kill loss ration on that thing.
from Cool man!, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 2, 2001


"T-rex couldn't defeat an angry Triceratops on the run..."
Triceratops was certainly challenging. Now Paleontologist believe it could run fairly fast when charging an enemy, much like the modern day Rhinoceros. But T-rex could defeat a Triceratops.
The T-Rex bursts out of the trees and bites down hard and kills the Triceratops. In any case, T-Rex could kill a single Triceratops, but when they were in herds it was a dangerous task even for T-Rex.

from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 2, 2001


"Carry on laddies, and do yer dinosaur and the scientific community proud."

To make the scientific community proud you need to take interest and talk about the given subject, think about it, read about it, help people to take interest in it. It is the thug community that is made proud by abuse.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 2, 2001


I don't know why t-rex fans have an insulting habit.What business of mine?Well,it used to happened to me twice for almost a week.Look,every dinosaur is an animal,there is no,killing or winning or pathtic thing,meat eaters kill only to survive and defense.
from Donovan c., age 12, ?, singapore, ?; December 1, 2001


T-rex couldn't manage to defeat an angry Triceratops on the run,didn't it? Please welcome the new king of the dinosaurs.
from Mikey V., age 9, St-Bruno, Quebec, Canada; December 1, 2001


Raptors ^&*
from ?, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 1, 2001


"Actually, Leonard does strike up a real concern. Your maturity level in taking adversity and responding to it in an apporiate manner is really low. While you implore others to treat you good, you yourself start the adversity by using all manners of bad and underhand tatics onto them*REALLY?*. I've seen the Mr. Honkie Albertosaurus attack *IS IT ANY OF YOUR BUSINESS? I WAS NOT ATTACKING HIM.* by you everybody is talking about and what a discusting piece of work. And this IS the person who freely insults others and responds to them in such a way and HE expects people to treat him good though he treats them like dirt*I RESPECT HONKIE TONG DEEPLY. I RESPECT MANY PEOPLE HERE. I WOULD RESPECT YOU, TOO, IF I HAD SOMETHING TO RESPECT YOU FOR. I HAVE A REASON TO DISRESPECT YOU, BUT DON'T WORRY, I AM NEUTRAL.*? Pitree, I say, he's no royality lads, he's no punching bag, it's too good a fate. He should be a target board to be preforated by multitudes of firea! rms of all sorts*YOU ARE EVIL AND SADISTIC. GO ON A NAZI SITE WHERE YOU BELONG.*. And he jolly well deserves it paid in full. Give these people no quarter, they don't deserve any. Carry on laddies, and do yer dinosaur and the scientific community proud."

They're stopping now, don't worry. They're seeing sense. You want me to go mad don't you? (Sorry again Leonard.) I really am learning from Honkie well. My caps lock is only ever to distinguish my writing on this page from yours. And I think it's sad that someone comes to a children's dinosaur site and all he does is to make trouble, and attack someone. Do you want to talk about dinosaurs or not? Because that's what you should be here for. If you're not, go away somewhere else. If you decide to stay and talk about dinosaurs then I'll be happy to receive you. And your attitude disturbs me "they deserve to be firearm targets,etc." This is a site for children! People who are nasty to people who are nasty to them are just as nasty the nasty people who did it to them in the first place. Know I understand Honkie's smooth reaction. Thank you, Honkie.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 1, 2001


"da masta deserves to be swarmed."

Do I then, huh? And if I say something angry now I'll be attacked, even though I was provoked. GET NICE OR GET OFF is my message to you mate.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?, ?; December 1, 2001


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