Stop Please, thats the best you can do!Fine il stop if you answer this.What was the first dinosaur to be named and described,and in what year did this event happen?
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?, ?; March 21, 2002

"Would whoever who's doing this PLEASE STOP!
It's really annoying for everyone when someone is impersonated. *I HAVE TO AGREE WITH THAT. IT JUST ISN'T HONEST TO IMPERSONATE SOMEONE. AND IT'S CONUSING! I THOUGHT EVERYONE PUT THEIR EM@IL ADDRESS...*

JC, I'm going to put my E-mail adress in from now on, so anyone who doesn't know it can be considered an imposter.
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?; March 20, 2002"

HMMM, JC, HAVE THERE BEEN ANY GREMLINS TRYING TO IMPERSONATE ME? BECAUSE IF I PUT MY EMAIL ADRESS, YOU PUT THE MESSAGES UP, BUT IF A MESSAGE, USING MY NAME, COMES WITHOUT AN ADDRESS, YOU DON'T PUT IT UP. BUT IN TIM'S CASE, EVEN IF YOU DID NOT THINK THAT IT WAS HIM, YOU PUT THE MESSAGE UP BECAUSE YOU NEVER KNOW; EVEN IF IT'S A SLIM CHANCE IT COULD STILL BE TIM. (NO OFFENSE TIM.) AM I RIGHT?
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; March 21, 2002
There have been more Tim M. impersonators that weren't put online (they were DEFINITEY not him). I don't think there were any more with your name. JC

"This is getting pretty annoying... I hate people who do things like that! Espically people who don't know how to spell. The people who impersonated me had a vocabulary seemingly limited to "Trex was teh best!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PS lol raptrs r stupid." *YEAH, BEING A RAPTOR FAN USED TO BE DANGEROUS HERE!*
from Joe Bob B., age 10, Death to impersonators!!!!!!!!*ISN'T THAT A BIT DRASTIC? A SMALL FINE COULD PUT THEM OFF... $20 OR SO TO GO TOWARDS HELPING ENCHANTED LEARNING.COM STAY ONLINE...*, ?, ?; March 20, 2002"
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; March 21, 2002

I don't like domestic cats because they damage indigenous wildlife!

AND they get support from cat-lovers!

As a rule I love all wild animals (without exception actually!) and I dislike domestic animals. I think that dogs, for instance, are cheaters in evolutionary terms. Now that people aren't animals, (for at least a few thousand years, actually,) we have certain responsibilities and costs, I beleive. As we have distanced ourselves from nature, we should NOT interfere with nature, I beleive, doing things like moving animals all over the planet where we like and hunting animals to extinction.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; March 21, 2002

This is getting pretty annoying... I hate people who do things like that! Espically people who don't know how to spell. The people who impersonated me had a vocabulary seemingly limited to "Trex was teh best!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PS lol raptrs r stupid."
from Joe Bob B., age 10, Death to impersonators!!!!!!!!, ?, ?; March 20, 2002

", Down with domestic cats!!!!,"

[chuckles]

Here Domestic dogs can be realy anooying as well. Since our town is pretty rural, there's a lot of space beetween houses, and there are not many cars passing through, people tend to let their dogs run a muck about the Neighborhood. They love to get into our trash and disperse it all around our yard. (Grrrr...)
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?; March 20, 2002

"I found out that stegosaurus could run up to 28 mpr!!!!!!!"

Would whoever who's doing this PLEASE STOP!
It's really annoying for everyone when someone is impersonated.

JC, I'm going to put my E-mail adress in from now on, so anyone who doesn't know it can be considered an imposter.
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?; March 20, 2002
I deleted the bogus message. JC

""Now where is Tom G, on his Birthday?

Happy Birthday Tom. It is the 17th, right?"

Thanks. I haven't been posting because I don't understand the stuff you and Tim are talking about."

About fabrosaurids? You know about fabrosaurids! It's mainly me learning stuff off Tim, anyway.

To get to that site I guess I'll have to do some archive searching...

I haven't written for ages because of lack of time. When it's the holidays I'll have to get a grip on myself and force myself not to play games like unreal tournament and write that story!!!
from da masta, age 14, Down with domestic cats!!!!, No offense to cat owners,; March 20, 2002

"Now where is Tom G, on his Birthday?

Happy Birthday Tom. It is the 17th, right?"

Thanks. I haven't been posting because I don't understand the stuff you and Tim are talking about.
from Tom G, age ?, ?, ?,; March 19, 2002

All right, I see what you mean Tim.

Actually, I firmly beleive that scutellosaurus is a fabrosaurid. The thyreophora evolved from animals like scutellosaurus, and scutellosaurus itself, (why not?) but scutellosaurus is a fabrosaurid. It's too primitive to be a thyreophoran! (Even though the thyreophora themselves are primitive!)
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; March 19, 2002

"The Fabrosauridae contains quite a few animals though, including Lesothosaurus. You can't just leave them and pretend that that're not important!"

But what you must understand is what the Fabrosauridae has gone through. Ginsberg described the first specimens of Fabrosaurus australis in 1964. In 1968, Thulborn found another specimen of what he believed to be F. australis. He then took F. australis from the "Scelidosauridae" and placed in the Hypsilophodontidae. Galton, in 1972, removed F.australis and put it in his newly established family: the Fabrosauridae. Then, six years later he took Thulborn's F. australis and created a new Genus and species for it: Lesothosaurus constuctus(I'm not sure about the species name). Sereno considered F. australis a nomen dubium, and used Lesothosaurus INSTEAD of the Fabrosauridae in discussions of Ornithischian Phylogeny. That's what I meant.(I don't think a family is invalid with the loss of its epynomous genus,though.)
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?, ?; March 18, 2002

"I don't know what to say."

Yeah, becasue there's only five regulars, (sorry, T-Master, but you haven't shown up for too long!) and we're all from differnt age groups, it's going to be hard to find something of the right level to talk about.

I'm not so advanced, actually, as for instance Tim might think. I don't know some of these terms you said. I'll have to check up the ones I don't know, and learn them. Being a dinosaur fan is a full-time job.

Now I'm trying to learn when each geological stage began and ended!

Where can I get non-mesozoic Phanerozoic stages and epochs? They're not on the Dinosauricon. And is there a site which teaches you to draw dinosaurs? Tom G, now I'm sure you went on it! Brad told you!
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; March 18, 2002

Now where is Tom G, on his Birthday?

Happy Birthday Tom. It is the 17th, right?
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; March 18, 2002

""The cladogram has no mention of the Fabrosauridae"

Yes, well that's because when Galton proposed Lesothosaurus, many authors, including Sereno, accepted the genus Lesothosaurus as a replacement for the Fabrosauridae."

The Fabrosauridae contains quite a few animals though, including Lesothosaurus. You can't just leave them and pretend that that're not important!
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; March 18, 2002

"To be honest I knew all of it."
That makes sense to me.

To be good at Taxonomy you have to know a series of terms like Polyphyletic, Monophyletic, Paraphyletic, Apomorph, Pleisiomorph, Syapomorph, Node based, stem based, etc.(you probably know all of these) Once you know that you can better understand taxonomy.
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?, ?; March 16, 2002

JC the last chapter of "The Food Chain"

in

"The Test of Time"

won't load! I get an Enchanted Learning.com search thing coming up.
Is it not done yet?
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; March 16, 2002
Chapter 28 isn't up yet. I left the link up because I thought it would be finished soon. JC

I don't know what to say.
from Gianna, age 11, RaptorRex, ?, ?; March 16, 2002

"so this is about Ornith I schian(sp?)groups?"

But that was not an error in your mind, it was probably just a typo.

Yes, we were talking about Ornithischian groups.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; March 16, 2002

"BY BIRTHDAY IS TOMORROW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Well, Happy Birthday in advance Gianna.

Actually, considering the time, this message will probably appear on the boards on the 16th, so it won't be in advance. Happy Birthday anyway!
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; March 16, 2002

"what is a nomen nudum(dubium)and that…"

a nomen dubium is a name originally given to an organism, but subsequently considered inaccurate or inadequate because a various reasons, such as a poor or incomplete description of this organism.

a nomen novum is a name proposed to replace another name.

a nomen nudum is a name considered inaccurate because of lost specimens on which the description is based.
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?, ?; March 16, 2002

"The cladogram has no mention of the Fabrosauridae"

Yes, well that's because when Galton proposed Lesothosaurus, many authors, including Sereno, accepted the genus Lesothosaurus as a replacement for the Fabrosauridae.
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?, ?; March 16, 2002

"Yes, well nowadays, the generally accepted view of the Ornithischia:
The main brach is the Genasauria, a node based taxon comprising of the Cerapoda and the Thyreophora, with the Fabrosauridae as an early outgroup. The Thyreophora consists of Scelidosaurus, Scutellosaurus, the Ankylosauria, and the Stegosauria. The Cerapoda is also node based I believe, comprising of the Ornithopoda (called Euornithopoda by Sereno) and the Marginocephalia. The Ornithopoda consists of the Heterodontosauridae, and another group that includes Hypsilophodontidae, Iguanodontia, and Hadrosauridae.
But you probably knew most of this."

To be honest I knew all of it.

I'm really trying to know loads of taxonomy now, the "T-Rex is a carnosaur" incident earlier on put me to shame.

And I find it very interesting.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; March 16, 2002

"what is a nomen nudum(dubium)and that …"

Nomen Nudum is a dinosaur with no fossil remains to show.

I'll give you an example. A dinosaur was found and called _Scelidosaurus Oehleri_. Then it turns out to be another dinosaur, and they name it _Tatisaurus Oehleri_. _Scelidosaurus Oehleri_ has nothing to show for itself and so is a Nomen Nudum, as Tatisaurus is the what the remains now are. A Nomina Dubia is a dinosaur that we are unsure about; it may be a Nomen Nudum or a proper dinosaur. Does that help?

And by the way, the dinosaurs with _Mongoliensis_ species now number in the tens, I think. It includes Adasaurus and a Mandschurosaurus Nomen Nudum.
from da masta, age 14, Birmingham, Selly Oak, West Midlands, Engl.; March 16, 2002

what is a nomen nudum(dubium)and that …
from Gianna, age 11, RaptorRex, dinoWorld, ?; March 15, 2002

so this is about Ornithschian(sp?)groups?

(by the way my age says 11 since it's tomorrow so I rexkon I'm so close I might as well call myself 11)
from Gianna, age 11, RaptorRex (cause they rule!), DinoWorld, ?; March 15, 2002

BY BIRTHDAY IS TOMORROW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
from Gianna, age ALMOST 11!, City of RaptorRex, DinoWorld, ?; March 15, 2002

"It looks like he thinks that early on the Ornithischia split into _Lesothosaurus_ and the Genasauria. The Genasauria basically has the Thyreophora as a straight tree which branches off later, and early on the Cerapoda appear to split off. He has the Hypsilophodontidae, which I beleive to be descended from the Fabrosauridae, bundled somewhere deep and cosy in the Ornithpoda. This is the generally accepted view nowadays, isn't it? The cladogram has no mention of the Fabrosauridae."

Yes, well nowadays, the generally accepted view of the Ornithischia:
The main brach is the Genasauria, a node based taxon comprising of the Cerapoda and the Thyreophora, with the Fabrosauridae as an early outgroup. The Thyreophora consists of Scelidosaurus, Scutellosaurus, the Ankylosauria, and the Stegosauria. The Cerapoda is also node based I believe, comprising of the Ornithopoda (called Euornithopoda by Sereno) and the Marginocephalia. The Ornithopoda consists of the Heterodontosauridae, and another group that includes Hypsilophodontidae, Iguanodontia, and Hadrosauridae.
But you probably knew most of this.
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?, ?; March 15, 2002

"It looks like he thinks that early on the Ornithischia split into _Lesothosaurus_ and the Genasauria"
I know! I read that Sereno and many other authors accepted Galton's Lesothosaurus rather than a monophyletic Fabrosauridae with Ginsburg's Fabrosaurus, Agilisaurus, and several others. Then the same book said some authors proposed a paraphyletic Fabrosauridae. 1 paragraph later, this book says the Fabrosauridae is unequivocally monophyletic due to several Pleisiomorphic characters, which number in the half dozens.
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?, ?; March 15, 2002

Right now I am looking at Sereno's cladogram which should illustrate well Sereno's view of phylogenic relationships within the Ornithischia.

It looks like he thinks that early on the Ornithischia split into _Lesothosaurus_ and the Genasauria. The Genasauria basically has the Thyreophora as a straight tree which branches off later, and early on the Cerapoda appear to split off. He has the Hypsilophodontidae, which I beleive to be descended from the Fabrosauridae, bundled somewhere deep and cosy in the Ornithpoda. This is the generally accepted view nowadays, isn't it? The cladogram has no mention of the Fabrosauridae.

Maybe he thinks that they should wait until more is known about them and they can then be grouped with more certainty?
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; March 15, 2002

I'll be gone for a couple more days... I'm going to visit my gramdma, and she doesn't have a computer. After that, I'll try to post every other day.
from Joe Bob B., age 11, Menlo Park, ?; March 14, 2002

"I wonder if he now supports an "unequivocally monopyletic Fabrosauridae"."

Why shouldn't he?
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; March 14, 2002

However, as it would have made T-Rex's posterior anatomy different, the tail may well have played an important role. In fact it did.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; March 14, 2002

""Absolutely. One point is that the tail plays an important role in balance, so T-Rex has is built in a very different way from
an emu."

Not only does it balance, but there were large muscles in the tail that might haveplayed a role in T-rex hip movement."

I was also going to say that, but most of the femoral muscles are connected to various pelvic bones, not to the tail. The strong tail muscles don't help animals to run, they are used to move the heavy tail to help in manouverability and balance.
from da masta, age ?, ?, ?; March 14, 2002

"Absolutely. One point is that the tail plays an important role in balance, so T-Rex has is built in a very different way from
an emu."

Not only does it balance, but there were large muscles in the tail that might haveplayed a role in T-rex hip movement.
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?, ?; March 13, 2002

[sigh]
I'm going to be absent again for a couple of days. Hopefully I'll be back before the weekend. Until ten, bye!
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?, ?; March 13, 2002

"Well, Sereno did a lot of work with Ornithischian dinosaurs."
Yeah, I know. I wonder if Sereno now supports an "unequivocally monopyletic Fabrosauridae".
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?, ?; March 13, 2002

"I THINK THAT HE
THOUGHT THERE WHERE SOME BASIC SIMILARITIES BETWEEN EMU AND TYRANNOSAUR LEGS, BUT I
AGREE, PREDICTIONS LIKE THAT SHOULD NOT BE MADE BY COMPARING DINOSAURS TO MODERN DAY
ANIMALS.*"

Right. His estimate isn't 100% accuate but it's probably close.
from Tim M., age ?, ?, ?, ?; March 13, 2002