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this year my grade is doin a projest
called "The Mock Trial" and my part is the keeper of the
carnivores.. out Trail is based on the movie Jurassic park. Any how
im trying to find information on Cranivores/meat eating
dinos.
from yooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo,
age 13,
planet earth,
mother,
planet;
December 5, 2000
Brad, I don't think that idea would
work. People would just post idiotic suggestions there too. JC, we
could really use your ideas here. What should be done 'bout this
stupid Joseph and BBD argument?
from Carchardontosaur,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 5, 2000
I agree. I'll try to think of something - any other suggestions? JC
Joseph, please, I have better things to
do with my life other than argue. If you want to say something,
rather than turning it into a battle cry, just state your
position.
from Carchardontosaur,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 5, 2000
I agree with Brad, there should be more
than one board...so that the people that want to conduct scientific
discussion can and don't have to sift through all of the other
stuff, arguing about raptors or whatever (personally I haven't been
following this whole raptor killing power thing that BBD is talking
about, or whoever it is, and its kinda hard to find worthwhile
posts...).
from Chandler,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 5, 2000
Bakker did say raptor claws were like
carving knives. Look more like hooked knives to me. I dont think
Tyrannosaurs had a septic bite. Komodo dragons have a septic bite,
but why doesnt the Nile and Water monitor? Not to mention scores of
other monitor lizards. A septic bite needs not only rotting meat
between teeth, but bacterial or very germy saliva, bleeding gums and
covered teeth. Besides, animals who need a poisonous bite are
usually too slow to run down their prey or make a solid kill.
Megalania may have had a septic bite, but then he was a distance
runner so who knows? Tyrannosaurs ate alot of bone too, so that
wouldve knocked alot of meat out of his teeth. Then theropod lips
were short and not long or thick enuff for that sort of stuff. I
dont think T>rex had no septic bite. Dilophosaurus
maybe.
from Monkeyman,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 5, 2000
Joseph, Im not gonna gang up with you
against "them". Im not a raptor fan nor a T.rex fan. I love em all,
even the other classes(if any of you know what that means).
Personally I dont want anything to do with "dino-fan" ignorance. Its
the dumbest thing Ive seen. The only ppl I see with a mind in here
is me and Brad. Honkie Tong, your a hypocrite. The ant is most
deadly, so tyrannosaurs still are not the most deadly predator
around. A cats claws are for gripping, but they can just as easily
cut. Then being a predator, tyrannosaurs probably didnt have as
thick skin as a herbivore, to cool down and more flexibility. Then
why do you keep talking about a small raptor. Im not talking about a
small raptor and t.rex. Im talking about any tyrannosaur and raptor
the same height. Raptor claws were too big for hooks. Then your
talking about a whole other class, in the archosaur class, grappling
claws are like eagle claws, not scythes. Those claws were made for !
cutting, and Bakkers own words are they were like knives. No raptor
could take T.rex, but daspletosaurus, sure, or albertosaurus, yes,
ofcourse they didnt live in the same time. The hooked point was for
"sureshot" hits and helped plunge deeper as the "blade" portion was
cutting. Large raptors lived with even larger and more formidable
prey. As far as the most deadly predator ever, that would go to
thylacoleo, large grappling hands, huge "raptor" claws, big chisel
like teeth for splitting the neck or back of skull not to mention he
could move like a lion-sized leopard. Now thats deadly. Speaking of
his claws, they were very similar to raptor claws, thylacoleo HAD
hook claws on his fingers and toes, but huge sickle like claws on
his thumbs for cutting. Those claws were for cutting and raptor
claws were like that too! Not to mention, MANY other dinosaurs had
grappling claws just for grappling like how cats use theirs. But
there claws werent flattened and bladed like a cutting too!
l. The retracting muscle wasnt for cutting, just pulling and
pushing, the cutting was done by the arms and legs, just like how
cats retract and cut when they do cut. Hmmmmmmm.
from BBD,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 5, 2000
Brad, I couldnt agree with you more, of
course only 3 of us would be in the first one, and the lil loser
group would fill up the 2nd with all their alteregos and the like.
The arguing is not for me, it tires and disgusts me. Oh yeah, Brad,
dont forget the talk forum for tyrannosaurus Rex fans who are
willing to only debate about which fan group is the
best.
from BBD,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 5, 2000
It is obvious by the type of messages
recieved that DinoTalk should include more than one message board,
probably three.
www.cooldinos.com/dinotalk/general/
www.cooldinos.com/dinotalk/theropod/
www.cooldinos.com/dinotalk/offtopic/
How do other people see this?
The place for normal dinosaur discussion- evolution, behavior,
extinction, cloning, discoveries, etc... This would be my
favourite.
Discussion of the killing powers of dinosaurs, comparisons to
weapons, techniques, etc... Fights can break out, as long as they
still involve ideas and not people. Nearly all of the current stuff
would go here.
Discussion of non-dinosaur news, homework, events, etc. A place to
get to know each other, and for the 'alphas' to announce they are
leaving, and stuff like that. Of course, there would still be rules
here.
from Brad,
age 13,
Woodville,
ON,
Canada;
December 5, 2000
I don't know - I'd also like to hear what the others think My guess is that the people who belong in the second and third category are sure that their discussion would fit into your first category - "Normal Discussion." We could put up a flame page, but that just encourages them. On our "Ask a Dinosaur Questions Site" (which we though was clearly a dinosaur question page), over a third of the questions we get have absolutely nothing to do with dinosaurs (people ask us about history, philosophy, languages, how to take care of their pets - you wouldn't believe the questions). Chaos seems to thrive on the Web and its hard to keep it out. JC
Joseph, you are so cool in my opinion.
Thats all they know how to talk about is tyrannosaurs. Joseph, I put
forth an argument,(could a 7ton raptor take out a 7ton tyrannosaur)
THINK WITH FACTS, it could, but anyway, they wouldnt give me
anything but nitpicks and stuff that had NOTHING to do with what I
was saying, then honkie thong, has all this misinformation he and
his lackies claim as fact, but when you ask em where they got that
shhhh, all they can do is say "your stupid, your stupid" and dont
giver you anything. Basically there a bunch of weak minded losers
who have nothing better than to fight behind a computer screen and
Levine and his made up characters and facts, well hes a joke. Ive
already taught them a lesson, I alone with facts and logic went
against all them and their alter egos and I still won the argument.
These people are small.
from BBD,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 5, 2000
Awww, Joseph, Can't handle a fight by
yourself? You have to get other
people involved? HA, Whatya' baby.
from Unknown,
age 11,
?,
?,
?;
December 5, 2000
YOU PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE
TALKING ABOUT! I WILL NEVER GIVE UP! PARTICULARY YOU HONKIE! DO YOU
HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ME? WHY DO YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO DEBUNK ALL MY
FACTS? CAN YOU STAY OUT OF THIS? THIS IS A SERIOUS DISCUSSION ABOUT
DINOSAURS, NOT SOME GAME FOR A ...
ALL YOU PEOPLE ARE ARROGRANT AND MINDLESS, THEY ONLY KNOW HOW TO
DEFEND TYRANNOSAURUS, THEY DON'T KNOW THE TRUTH!
BBD? ARE YOU WITH ME? LETS TEACH THEM A LESSON THEY'LL NEVER
FORGET!
from Joseph,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 5, 2000
Oh yes, I forgot your point about the
raptors struggling and kicking Tyrannosaurus' neck, killing him.
Well, if you bothered to look at the eariler posts, yes, the ones
with the computer model, you would realize why this is not possible.
Anyway, since you wanted to argue with the facts, I'll give you my
arguments based on the facts. You know and admit that Tyrannosaurus
had a powerful, well muscled neck right? Good. So tell me in the
unlikely event a raptor kicks the Tyrannosaurus in the neck, what
will happen? It'll be kicking muscle! Hardly a deadily wound.
I think both you and BBD are letting your biases cloud your
judgment. Give it up. Everytime you bring up a point, it's shot
down.
from Honkie Tong,
age 16,
?,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
Really Joseph, BBD, your arguments are
hardly calm and rational. Joseph, you never fail to amaze me. As
usual, your "facts" are incorrect.
Pound for pound deadilness hardly determines the deadilest animal.
The lowly ant is pound for pound, deadiler than the raptors, so why
don't you call them the deadilest creatures? No? Now you see the
flaw in your reasoning. Tyrannosaurus was the deadilest predator
around.
Also about a raptor slash being more wounding than a "puny"
Tyrannosaur bite. I seriously believe this to be untrue. A
Tyrannosaur bite can remove up to 70kilos of meat and leave a gouge
1 feet deep and 3 feet long. Is that your idea of puny? The raptors
on the other hand, if we look at the bones, we would realize that
while the sickle claw can be swiped 180 degrees, the muscles moving
the claw were relatively weak. I believe the raptors used the claws
more for grappeling than anything else. One must also remember that
a Tyrannosaurus bite could also shatter bone. Responding to BBD's
eariler statement about raptor claws beign like cats claws and being
used like carving knives. Well, if BBD knew any comparative anatomy,
he would realize that cat claws were not designed to carve, but to
grip the prey. Like the limb claws of the raptor, the arms have also
been sorely overestimated.
About agility. It's obvious that the raptors were more agile, but
how much more sgile that it gave it an edge in combat? We all know
that a small cat is far more agile than a big dog, but if you pit
those two together, the dog will always win, despite not being as
agile. The same is for the raptors. Besides, I don't really think
the raptors were really smart to hit the rex and then stand back.
Which puts another flaw into your statement Joseph, we know the
raptors main form of attack was grapple and slash, not hit and run.
So then, tell me how can the raptors attack the Tyrannosaurus safely
if it has to grapple the Tyrannosaur and attack? Tyrannosaurus was
by no means extremely clumsly. He was also an extrmemly agile
creature that was probally not too far behind the raptors in
agility.
About the hearing statement. Are you sure the raptors had better
hearing? If I am not wrong, the raptors had the adverage hearing of
small predatory dinosaurs. Anaylisis of Tyrannosaur ears showed that
this dinosaur was capable of hearing way below and above the range
of any other dinosaur predator. The smell, sight and hearing of
Tyrannosaurus were all excellent and certainly better than the
raptors in all areas. I really don't know where you got your info
from, but its hight likely to be inaccurate.
I seriously doubt the raptors were really deadily in the first
place. There were alot of carnivore of their size too, but add a
sickle claw to it and everybody goes gaga, including you Joseph. You
wanted facts? Well, here are the facts.
from Honkie Tong,
age 16,
?,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
You people don't get it do you? BBD's
and my rational and clam reasoning has proclaimed our arguments
superior to the skewed arguments of any T.rex fan. Get out of here
T.rex fans! BBD and Joseph are winnerssssss you are loserssssssss!
Common BBD, lets get'em!
from Joseph,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
DW, YOU ARE AGAINST ME TOO. BUT THERE'S
NOTHING TO BE SAID, ITS CLEAR THAT I'M GOING TO WIN THIS DEBATE
OUTRIGHT.
from Joseph,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
You all are ganging up on me! Cowards!
Okay, so the raptors did not have as good vision as T.rex, but they
were still better. BITE ME!
Now I WIIL TELL YOU why the raptors are better:
They were deadiler, pound for pound.
They were more agile than T.rex, therefore they can attack him and
avoid being attacked back.
Also their sickle claws can wound animals more than a puny T.rex
bite. One Utahraptor can probally take on a T.rex and kill him.
T.rex cannot win. Like BBD said, if the raptor struggles while a
T.rex bites him and if the raptor hits the neck, the rex will be
deadmeat. So even T.rex cannot beat a puny Velociraptor. HA HA HA HA
HA
So these are the facts I derived from the bones. Raptors are better
and deadiler! HA H AH AHAH AH AH AH ! Go to sleep! This is the
raptors domain. Now don't say I was like BBD and didn't take any
correction. I admit that T.rex could run faster and had better
eyesight, but that dosen't make him any more deadilier than the
raptors. The raptors were still more agile and had better hearding.
These are the FACTS! HA HA!
from Joseph,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
What do you mean Tyrannosaurus had
better eyesight? Ok, his eyesight was not so bad, but it was just as
good as the raptors. It did not have better eyesight than the
raptors. Honkie, I think you have a problem with me. Why are you
always opposing my posts? Can't you see it's obvious that I'm
correct and you're wrong? But I am going to prove it beyond all
doubt. Here's to you BBD. Honkie, stop all this passive agression
and come face me if you dare!
from Joseph,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
I'll see what I can do about the model,
but I can't guarantee anything. Thanks, anyway. I did buy the
Carnegie Rex. ;)
from DW,
age 14,
Singapore!,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
No, he's worse than BBD. BBD didn't act
this stubbornly.
Ok, this has got to end once and for all. Joseph, before you
proclaim me your enemy, I STARTED THIS STUPID DEBATE ABOUT RAPTORS.
IT WAS A DISCUSSION ON THEIR HUNTNIG HABITS AND BBD TURNED IT INTO A
DEBATE ON Wwhich WAS THE DEADLIER DINOSAUR. NOW THIS IS STUPID,
BECAUSE EACH CREATURE IS SUPREMELY ADAPTED TO IT'S CURRENT
ENVIRONMENT.
Anyway, here's a comparitive breakdown on the dinosaurs in question.
1. Raptors are agile but not very fast.
T-Rex is fast but not that agile (how fast could a 5 ton animal
turn?)
2. The massive toe claw on the foot of the raptors is not strong
enough to slash. We know this because we have resident
paleontologist here at zoomdinos, Levine, who you'll meet soon, who
studies stress marks on fossils. They were either used as grappling
hooks or for mating rituals.They have strong jaws with teeth, but
they are not very large. The're hands have nice slashing claws, but
so do all medium sized theropods.
3. Raptors may have had stereoscopic vision but they did not have
stereoscopic hearing which is important. They had an adequet sense
of smell.
4. Pack hunting has only been observed in Deinonychus and many
suspect it is just mobbing. (We have discussed this already)
However, all smaller dromeosaurids found in disasters,e.g.
sandstorms, ash-falls , etc. , have been found singularly.
5. Raptors have not been found with many injuries.
6. A study on the braincases of raptors show that small raptors have
the brain makeup of mean chickens. Deinonychus has a slightly more
complex brain structure.
These are the cold, hard facts. Go and check them up. Take your
time. But if you refuse to acknowledge these facts, good luck in
life. Stubborness is not a trait people look for.
T-Rex has a huge haw filled with teeth. Nothing special, right?
Wrong. THe jaws have a bite pressure hard enough to puncture steel.
T-Rex had steroescopic vision, stereoscopic hearing and exellent
sense of smell.
T-Rex proberbly hunted in pairs or family groups. We know this
because Tyrannosaurs have been found with severe injuries (Stan the
T-rex had a broken neck) which healed. How would an animal with a
broken neck hunt? Therefore, something must be feeding them.
T-Rex's have been found with many injuries.
T-Rex has the brain makeup of hawks.
from DW,
age 14,
Singapore!,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
That message didn't turn out very good,
so this is the contuination. Once again, as I said, there is nothing
to say Tyrannosaurus would have had poor vision.
Now, if you would look at the adverage raptor skull, you would
notice that their eyes did not face as forward as Tyrannosaurus,
meaning they would have had a wider field of vision but
correspondingly less steroscopic vision. Which means they had less
dept perception than Tyrannosaurus. If you would look at the raptor
eye, you would ntoice it was pretty adverage for a predatory
dinosaur its size. The raptors would have had good vision, but they
would have been outspotted by a modern lion anyday, which in turn
would be outspotted by Tyrannosaurus. Once again, there is nothing
to indicate that Tyrannosaurus had poor vision at all. If anything,
we should find that Tyrannosaurus probally had one of the best
visions of any dinosaur around. These are my conclusions I drew from
the bones and facts, nothing more.
from Honkie Tong,
age 16,
?,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
No thanks, it's just about afternoon here in S'pore. I wonder what
time it is in Tulsa?
Anyway, I'll engage you piecemeal. I believe your statement about
the raptors having better eyesight is not true. As you said, you are
going to disprove us with facts, well, where are the facts to show
that the raptors had better eyesight. If you ask me, you're
assuming. And when you assume, you make an ASS out of U and ME. But
in this case, it's jsut you.
Okay, back to the topic of eyesight. If you ask me, there is nothing
to prove that the raptors had better eyesight, to the contray, I
suspect they might have had poorer eyesight. If you look at a
Tyrannosaurus skull, you would notice that it actually has a very
narrow snout. Meaning it's eyes would have faced forward, giving it
steroscopic vision, or in simple terms, dept of field to hunt.
Another thing, a Tyrannosaur eye is actually bigger than your fist,
it was slightly bigger than a tennis ball, meaning it would have had
extremely acute vision, compairable or even exceeduing that of
modern day raptors, which have extremely good vision. Tyrannosaurus
probally had 80/20 vision, or prehaps even 100/20 vision. Meaning
hat you can spot from 100 feet, a Tyrannosaurus can see from 100
feet. I guess you must have been mislead by Jurassic Park. That
movie is hardly fact. In that scene where Grant and Lex froze in
front of the rex, and the rex can't see them....that's nuts, that's
cr!
azy. They would have been lunchmeat. I have no idea where you got
the idea that Tyrannosaurus had poor vision from, prehaps you might
state that Tyrannosaurus had very small optical lobes in compairism
to its olfactory lobes but really, that by no means would have meant
Tyrannosaurus had bad vision. Tyrannosaurus' optic lobes were
certainly bigger than other dinosaurs of its time...including the
raptors. Once again, there's nothing to sugest Tyrannosaurus had
poor vision. It dosen't make much sense for a animal with
steroscopic ability but poor vision, it dosen't make much sense at
all.
Not to the raptors. If you look at a raptor skull, you would notice
that its eyes actually didn't face as much forward as Tyrannosaurus.
Giving it a wider field of view and correspondingly less steroscopic
vision. I you would look at the raptor eye, you would notice it
wasn't really big or anything, but adverage for a predator. The
raptors probally had good vision, but certainly not better than
Tyrannosaurus. A moder day lion would have outspotted the raptors,
only to be outspotted by Tyrannosaurus. Once again, I really see
nothing in the bones or facts to suggest the raptors had better
eyesight.
from Honkie Tong,
age 16,
?,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
Tyrannosaur speed limits again? Well
just in case anybody wants to know, the Tyrannosaurus rexes in Old
Blood clock a wooping 53 kilometers and hour.
from Billy Macdraw,
age 18,
?,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
No thanks, it's just about afternoon
here in S'pore. I wonder what time it is in Tulsa?
Anyway, I'll engage you piecemeal. I believe your statement about
the raptors having better eyesight is not true. As you said, you are
going to disprove us with facts, well, where are the facts to show
that the raptors had better eyesight. If you ask me, you're
assuming. And when you assume, you make an ASS out of U and ME. But
in this case, it's jsut you.
Okay, back to the topic of eyesight. If you ask me, there is nothing
to prove that the raptors had better eyesight, to the contray, I
suspect they might have had poorer eyesight. If you look at a
Tyrannosaurus skull, you would notice that it actually has a very
narrow snout. Meaning it's eyes would have faced forward, giving it
steroscopic vision, or in simple terms, dept of field to hunt.
Another thing, a Tyrannosaur eye is actually bigger than your fist,
it was slightly bigger than a tennis ball, meaning it would have had
extremely acute vision, compairable or even exceeduing that of
modern day raptors, which have extremely good vision. Tyrannosaurus
probally had 80/20 vision, or prehaps even 100/20 vision. Meaning
hat you can spot from 100 feet, a Tyrannosaurus can see from 100
feet. I guess you must have been mislead by Jurassic Park. That
movie is hardly fact. In that scene where Grant and Lex froze in
front of the rex, and the rex can't see them....that's nuts, that's
cr!
azy. T
from Honkie Tong,
age 16,
?,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
Tyrannosaurus was the ultimate
expression and the best of the Tyrannosaurs, therefore, he's
immenensely popular. No, no other Tyrannosaur was better than
Tyrannosaurus Rex. I donno why you call him "old rex", but he was
one of the most modern, most advanced Tyrannosaurs.
from Leonard,
age 12,
?,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
Go find somebody else to insult
Carchardontosaur, once I'm done with T.rex, I'll move on to you.
Hey, T.rex fans, why aren't you answering my posts about T.rex being
not as deadily? Are you scared?
from Joseph,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
You know Joseph, you're right.......YOU
BEHAVE EXACTLY LIKE BBD, ARRAGORANT, AND SELF-ASSURED. Go date BBD
or something and leave this place in peace.
from Grace Tay,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
Hey, good one Honkie! Take that Joseph
and BBD!
from Lilian Tay,
age 14,
?,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
OK! So I was wrong, T.rex was faster
than a raptor, BITE ME! The raptors were still deadiler because they
were better in everything else. They certainly had better eyesight
than T.rex, who was a scavenger. BBD's correct. The raptors were
deadiler. We still win. Go to sleep Honkie. You're no good arguging
against me. You're no match for me.
from Joseph,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
Okay, Tyrannosaurus is pretty neat, but
you have got to pay some attention to the other tyrannosaurs like
Alcertrosaurus and Daspletosaurus and Tabrosaurus. They are just as
good, if not better than, old T-rex.
from russell p,
age ?,
seattle,
wa,
usa;
December 4, 2000
Joseph, I am not going to get into this,
I just won't. You want to run around waving your butt in the air
that's fine with me, but go bother someone else about it. Face it,
with an attitude like that, I'm surprised your internet name isn't
POND SCUM.
from Carchardontosaur,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
Well, I'm taking a break form old blood
for a while. I'll resume next week.
from Billy Macdraw,
age 18,
?,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
My goodness, you're bahaving exactaly
like BBD. Anyway, your anaylisis of Tyrannosaurus speed limits are
flawed, let me tell you why.
You wanted facts? Okay, I'll give you facts. Is the Needletail
Swallow limited to 50 miles per hour because if it hit a wall above
that speed, it would certainly die? Of course not. The Needletail
flies at speeds in excess of 200 miles per hour. It's not limited by
what speed it would kill itself if it flew into a wall.
I believe the same is for Tyrannosaurus rex. I don't think he would
have been limited to 30km/h for the simple reason he did not fall!
Unlike us humans who are top heavy and require a balancing act to
walk upright, Tyrannosaurus rex was well balanced with a heavy
stiffened tail to act as a counterweight and also as a gyoscope to
keep the rex from falling, much like a cheetah's tail. That in
addition to his powerful legs and shock absorbing potential, would
have allowed him to move in excess of 30 km/h. In fact, I would even
expect him to make up to 50 km/h. Some people compair his running
speed to that of an elephant, but I find this is flawed. Tyrannosaur
legs resemble more that of an ostrich than that of an elephant. Yes,
Tyrannosaurus was a fast runner, it's unlikely that your argument
stands.
If you were right, could I say that Gymnastics is not possible
because if I fell while doing a routine, I might kill myself. No. I
don't think it's a good idea to put such "limits" on animals and
proclaim them to follow such "limits". They will escape such limits.
Not so long ago, we proclaimed by our flawed judgment, that by the
laws of aerodynamics, the hummingbird could not fly. But
hummingbirds still fly despite all out "limits".It's bad pratice to
put speed limits based on risk on animals. Tyrannosaurus was
certainly built to move above 30 km/h, and it will, despite all your
speed "limits". Life will find a way.
from Honkie Tong,
age 16,
?,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
NO! I AM GOING TO DO WHAT BBD FAILED. TO
TEACH ALL YOU T.REX FANS A GOOD LESSON ON THE DEADILEST DINOSAUR!
WATCH OUT! WE WIN! HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH. WELL, YOU MAY THINK I BEHAVE
LIKE BBD AND YOU ARE RIGHT! BECAUSE LIKE HIM, WE'RE RIGHT AND YOU
ALL ARE WRONG. THE RAPTORS COULD KILL ANYTHING. HEY T.REX FANS! IF
YOU CAN'T COUNTER ME WITH FACTS, GO FIND ANOTHER DOMAIN! THIS WILL
BE THE RAPTOR'S DOMAIN FROM NOW. JUST TRY TO STOP US!
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA
from Joseph,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
Joseph, I'm begging you, I'm on my knees
begging you. Please, no matter what, don't start this again. We've
begun to gather a real problem with this whole raptor thing.
Personally, I am not a rex fan either(or a hater, mind you). Still,
you hve to face facts. We really don't want to get into more
conflict, none of us do. Don't take my word for it, ask poor BBD.
If it makes you feel any better, probably a pack of raptors could
kill my species. Just,
puleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze
don't make us deal with this over and over. It's never worth the
trouble.
from Carchardontosaur,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
Yeah right Honkie. If T.rex fell while
it was running above 30km/h, it would injure itself. If it did a
belly flop while running above 50km/h, it would kill itself. Your
response saying that T.rex was faster than the raptors is not valid.
Ok, I admit the facts, the raptors were not as fast as I thought,
but they were still faster than T.rex and could slash his butt
HAHAHHAHAHA we win!
from Joseph,
age ?,
Tulsa,
?,
USA;
December 4, 2000
Joe Bob (probably not his real name)
wrote a short story in which Honkie Tong and Billy Macdraw were
killed by raptors. Being nothing more than a personal attack, this
story was recently deleted.
from Brad,
age 13,
Woodville,
ON,
Canada;
December 4, 2000
What did I miss? What did joe
say?
from Carchardontosaur,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
I think I want to be a palentologest(I
hope I spelled that right)when I grow up.I've been looking for dino
articles,facts,and such since I was little.I read them,said my
opinions about the issues(such as extinction),and hoped I could be
one of them and make a discovory.In my heart,and in my soul,I know I
will one day make a big discovory in palentology,just like
them.
from Katryn W.,
age 12,
Augusta,
Michigan,
America;
December 4, 2000
Eating oatmeal with candy dinosaurs in
it is sort of fun. Building with dinosaur-themed LEGO is fun. And
according to my new LEGO Mania magazine, Quaker and LEGO have a
"NAME THE DINOSAUR CONTEST!" Buy the dino egg oatmeal. Win LEGO
dino sets for prizes. And apparently choose the name of a new
dinosaur. The Canadian Museum of Nature is in on this too, and
there is a sculpture of the new dino in the ad. It's a rather plain
centrosaurine, with a short upright nasal horn and little
ornamentation on the frill--but it could be my dinosaur! It's
currently labeled as NEWLY DISCOVERED DINOSAUR. Anyone know anything
more about this? Of course, none of the rules are in the ad, you
must "See Grocery Stores for Details." Maybe they want a kid in the
ages 6-12 LEGO target group, maybe the contest is almost over (I
only recently renewed my LEGO membership, this is the November and
December 2000 issue). But I think I have a good enough chance at
this. I promise to come up with a decent scientific name, and not call it a
Legosaurus. Is this a new genus or just a new species (of
Centrosaurus?)? Well, I guess it's time to see grocery stores for
details.
from Brad,
age 13,
Woodville,
ON,
Canada;
December 4, 2000
dinosoars are so cool everyone sould
learn about them
from suzie q,
age 54,
orlando,
maine,
africa;
December 4, 2000
dinosaurs are still alive
from ?,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
I really don't like the idea of Joe
Bob's fanfic. I know I am not a writer but this's my say. I think it
should be removed as quickly as possible.
from Lilian T.,
age 14,
Singapore,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
Okay, he's gone. JC
I am really against the idea of Joe
Bob's story. I can see nothing in that story but the comtempt and
hate of the writer towards another person not sharing his
opinion.
from Billy Macdraw,
age 18,
?,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
Well, I feel that writers should not
sttack each other so directly. Thye could use subtle attacks here
and there to do it. I'd hate to see hate stories about nothing but
human pain and suffering fill the fan fic page more than I have seen
so much hate come from BBD here.
from Billy Macdraw,
age 18,
?,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
It would make for a very boring fight.
The Utahraptor and Tyrannosaur will not be able to fight as they
will keep bouncing away from each other and skipping of the
walls.I'm not sure dinosaurus were smart enough to maneuver in 0g.
Anyway, Joeseph, since you would like to argue with facts, I would
like to tell you that the raptors were actually not faster than
Tyrannosaurus because of, well, the facts.
The raptors have one of the shortest tibiae and metatarsals of any
land based predatory dinosaur, which is the direct opposite of what
you would expect in a fast runner. The raptors were probally
actually surprisingly slow for their size, prehaps slightly faster
than humans. If we do compairative anatomy, we would realize all
fast runners have long and slender tibulae and metatarsals. Not to
mention equipment to grip the ground. If we look at the raptors, we
would realize they had very little muscle at the end of the leg.
Instead, the entire leg was worked from the top by tendons. Also,
the two toes of the raptors that are in contact with the ground are
not really cut out for gripping the ground. If we look at the
raptors, we would realize that they were hardly built for speed, but
for agaility. Ceratinly though, I suspect a raptor could outrun a
human being anyday.
If we look at the leg of a Tyrannosaurus, we would realize it
actually has the longest and most slender tibiae and metatarsals of
any land based predatory dinosaur. We would also notice that the
Tyrannosaur leg had a lot of muscle attatchments and shock absorbing
cartillage to protect the leg from tremedus shock sustained while
running. If we look at the foot of a Tyrannosaur, we would notice
that it is well splayed out to spread its weight and also to
delocalise the shock of running. Even better, the toe claws of a
Tyrannosaur are well curved and could have gripped the ground while
running. All in all, we would actually expect Tyrannosaurus to be
one of the fastest land based predators in all of dinosauria.
Well Brad, the soup I was having did have an entire chicken stuffed
in it. It's a Korean soup.
from Honkie Tong,
age 16,
?,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
So, what if we changed this to a
Tyrannosaurus rex and a genetically modified 7-ton Utahraptor
fighting in an environment with no gravity...??? 'Raptor's already
hypothetical, we can go as far as we want to now.
from Brad,
age 13,
Woodville,
ON,
Canada;
December 4, 2000
I have a book about making tyrannosaurs
out of chicken skeletons, but I haven't tried it yet. The book does
show how to make the skull: you need to cut the hips into skull-like
shapes. Not totally authentic. Isn't it a bit unusual to find bones
in chicken soup?
from Brad,
age 13,
Woodville,
ON,
Canada;
December 4, 2000
Hey you know I was eating some Ginseng
chicken soup that day when I suddenly had a brainwave. As I looked
at the chicken bones, I noticed I could build a complete
Tyrannosaurus Rex from the bones! I searched up the net for it and
actally found a webpage teaching us how to make dino models from
chicken bones. I havent figured out the skull yet
though.
from ?,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
JC, I have noticed that Joe Bob's fan
fic has shifted from attacking dinosaurs to attacking people. Isn't
that against policy? I am particaully against that when I am
involved.
from Honkie Tong,
age 16,
?,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
I certainly don't like material like that at all. What do the other authors think? Censorship on the fiction page or not. Let me know what you think. JC
Actually, I have the lost world T.rex.
It ain't so bad too, thought a bit inaccurate. I'm afraid you have
to order that from overseras as Singaporeans are too pre-occupied
with BLADE RIDER!
from Honkie Tong,
age 16,
?,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
Sorry man. Hey, can you order one for me
too?
from Honkie Tong,
age 16,
?,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
BBD, are you with me? We have not won
yet, but nor have we lost. THis is far from over. We must show them
that Tyrannosaurus was actually an overated animal! Lets not stop
until we have a confirmed victory. Remember, the facts are there.
Tyrannosaurus was a scavenger and the Raptors were faster and
deadiler. Lets use all this to get em!
from Joseph,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
No! It's not over! WE HAVE NOT LOST YET.
Raptors are the deadilest animals around! And I'm going to prove
that to you. Firstly they are faster than any Tyrannosaurus of any
size, so they can come aroung and wack Tyrannosaurus' butt anytime.
Tyrannosaurus was limited to 20km/h hardly fast. In fact, I am
certain Tyrannosaurus was a scavenger, hardly the superkiller you
made it out to be.
from Joseph,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 4, 2000
Honkie, I've been to the bug shop and it does not have what I wanted. What they have is the Carnegie Collection by Safari Ltd. T-Rex and it looks like this and I think it is what you mentioned:
This is what I am looking for
And why (from the main site): Head swings from side to side. Lower
jaw moves up and down. Neck moves up and down. Articulating arms,
legs, knees, & hips. the Rex has a bendable tail. Available in
stores now!
This is really awesome! Too bad I can't find it in
Singapore.
from DW,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
My God...
STOP THIS NOSENSE! THIS HAS DEGENERATED FROM A FRIENDLY DISCUSSION
TO AN IDIOTIC ARGUMENT! AND TO THINK I started all this...
AND YOU "T-REX FANS"! WHY DO YOU GLOAT AFTER SUCH AN OBVIOUS
"VICTORY"? WHY DO YOU KEEP PROCLAIMING YOURSELVES TO BE SO MUCH
SUPERIOR JUST BECAUSE YOUR "OPPONENT" LOST ON THE BASIS OF AN
ARGUMENT THAT IS LESS STRONG! WHY DO YOU PERSECUTE SOMEONE YOU DO
NOT EVEN KNOW? WHY DO YOU KEEP STUFFING THE DEFEAT DOWN THE THROATS
OF YOUR "OPPONENT" EVEN AFTER HE/SHE HAS CLEARLY LOST? DO YOU THINK
THAT THIS WON'T LEAD TO CONFLLICT? EVERY DAY THIS HAPPENS AND YOU
KNOW WHAT? PEOPLE DIE BECAUSE OF THIS. WAR'S START. LIFE IS
EXTINGUISHED. Please, I want to make a better world...
I'm sorry. Excuse me if I reacted rashly or
otherwise.
PEOPLE! GET ON WITH YOUR LIVES! MOVE ON! LIVE! LIFE'S TOO SHORT FOR
THIS NONSENSE! SO WHAT IF YOU LOST THE DEBATE! BBD, IT DOSEN'T
MATTER! IN 2-5 YEARS TIME ALL THESE DEBATES WOULD MEAN NOTHING! DO
YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MUCH OF AN IDIOT YOU LOOK? YOU KEEP STATING
THAT YOU ARGUED WITH FACTS AND LOGIC BUT WHERE ARE THEY? ALL YOUR
POINTS WERE REBUTTED AND REBUKED! STOP THE DEBATE AND CONCEDE! LEARN
FROM YOUR MISTAKES!
from DW,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
BBD I'm with you. I'm sick of seeing
those T.rex fans gang up to get you. Those T.rex fans are letting
their dinosaur cloud their judgment. Let's not have anything to do
with that. We can argue our way past them with facts and evidence.
Yes, the raptors were the deadilest. And nothing is going to change
that. BBD, lets teach these morons that Tyrannosaurus was vastly
overated. Watch out T.rex fans, BBD's has a new ally.
But first tings first. BBD, even though monkeyboy behavaves like a
totaly arragrant fellow, I must agree that 7-ton raptors are not a
good idea. As I said, we must argue with facts, so I guess a 7-ton
raptor is not really good for our case. You watch out T.rex fans!
The raptors are smarter, faster and more agile than Tyrannosaurus
rex. I betcha a pack of dromies can take down a
Tyrannosaurus.
from Joseph,
age ?,
Tulsa,
?,
USA;
December 3, 2000
BBD, you called your opposition
"morons"? Really, I get the impression that you are trying to force
your view with skewed common sense while the Tyrannosaur fans are
arguing via facts and logical and rational reasoning. Really, if you
could swoop so low as to declare your opposition morons and
alter-egos, you are either no better than them or prehaps even
worse.
from Norman,
age 15,
?,
?,
Malaysia;
December 3, 2000
Well, not bad Carchardontosaur, keep it
up. I'm currently taking a break from old blood not so please do nto
hold it against me if I do nto post for a while. I really find that
piece by Joe Bob B extremely offensive though. Well, I may sound
clam but am actually extremely offended. Please do somethign about
it.
from Billy Macdraw,
age 18,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
Mabye you people should restart the
entire thing. Starting from post one. You are hardly going anywhere
trading fire like that. BBD, you should consider. You have far more
to lose than the other side. How about you other guys? Do you think
you should restart?
from Billy Macdraw,
age 18,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
Prehaps all this started with how we see
"deadiliness" Some say see pound for pound deadileness while others
see literal deadiliness. Well, if that's true, Dryptosaurus would
probally be the deadilest, pound for pouns while Tyrannosaurus would
literally be the deadilest dinosaur around. As you can see, the
raptors don't fit anywhere. Anyway, if BBD's argument stands about
pound for pound deadiliness, then I assume the deadiliness creature
would be the mosquito.
from Honkie Tong,
age 16,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
If I remembers correctly, you never took
correction about the arms, your last post stated that Giganotosaurus
had arms that were of the same strenght. If you ask me, that's an
excuse to save your skin, not taking correction. Anyway, that
Giganotosaurus vs Tyrannosaurus debate was never resolved because
you magically switched to raptors...hmm how odd or are you quietly
abandoning ship and hoping nobody notices?
from Levine,
age 24,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
Statistically, if a lot of people call
you an idiot, then that idea must have something going for it. Mabye
you are an...well, you fill in the rest.
from Jon F,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
You see, BBD your problem is that you
have hardly any good or correct ideas of the raptors. One thing. A
7-ton Tyrannosaur would be faster than a 7-ton raptor. Whatever gave
you the idea that it was faster? A Tyrannosaur is always faster than
a raptor of similar size. In fact, the Tyrannosaurs were one of the
fastest predatory dinosaurs around. I don't know how you argue, but
Honkie has determined that a 7-ton raptor would hardly be able to
kick, so there goes the claw. Also, whats a few slashes in
compairism to a 3 foot long and 1 foot deep hone in your flank? If
you ask me, deducing from the facts, Tyrannosaurus was the deadilest
in the 7-ton class. And another thing, Tyrannosaurus was more
accurately weighted in at 6 tons.
Really, you shouldn't accuse people of being alter-egos. They can
get dissed and really prove their existence to you
painfully.
from FD,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
wAIT A MINUTE...mR
rOGERS=BBD?
from ?,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
Well, different things can be deduced
from bones BBD, and I would like to say I do not agree with you. A
20foot raptr will weight in excess of a ton and therefore, will not
be able to leap. So that leaves it with the hands to fight a 20foot
Tyrannosaurus. Well, I don't think it would be in the good intrest
fo the raptor to use its grappeling arms to grappel with the
Tyrannosaur. Nor could the raptors escape the Tyrannosaur as the
Tyrannosaur could outrun it. If you ask me, if anything, a big
raptor would be disadventaged in a fight as all the Tyrannosaurids
need is to get a single bite in and that's the end of the story. The
raptor will bleed to death from that wound. If you ask me, the
Tytrannosaur, with its higher speed, agility and more powerful bite
would have won the day.
from Leonard,
age 12,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
Well, I guess BBD not only has a
fortified mind, but very little in it as ideas cannot get in and
out. Its my believe a Tyrannosaurid would have taken on and raptor,
any size and won.
from flamebird,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
Not bad, this drawing is not
bad.
from Honkie Tong,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
Well done, FD, your anaylsis of BBD's
character is spot on.
from Levine,
age 24,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
I don't want to pop anybodys party but I
have proved exausively that a 7-ton raptor cannot work. Raptors have
a perfect small bodyplan. You can't enlarge that without getting
into trouble. I think what people are trying to tell you is that
assuming the raptors did use their sickle claws (which is highly
unlikely) they probally would be deadilest pound for pound. But in
the end, Tyrannosaurus would still be the deadilest predator becasue
he had the most deadileness points.As I said, mother nature has a
good reason for keeping the raptors small. A 7-ton raptor would not
be deadily, but handicapped instead. Think of it this way. If the
raptors were so deadily, then bigger and more powerful forms should
have appeared...well, it looked that way with Utahraptor but
obviously something wasn't working as they didn't get to 7-ton size,
but went extinct when the early Tyrannosaurids appeared. So your
theory of 20foot raptor vs 20ft tyrannosaurs did happen, but it was obvious the Tyrannosaurids won. That's my
opinion.
from Honkie Tong,
age 16,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
BBD, I read your last post about fifty
times. In a sense, you are right, but stil, it seemed as if you
were putting up an argument that was truly turnining your attiude
from conversationalis to dictator. Again, I don't know you or
anything about you, and neither does anyone else here, so none, and
I mean none of us has the right to say false things about you, and
somewhere along the line I got carried away with how much I really
should have been able to say. After reading your post, I went all
the way down and went over your previous posts. You should too,
because there was a time or two where I think you said something and
expected us to decipher it as you meant it to be wrote. I, nor
anyone on this planet can truly read minds, and sometimes I know how
it feels to be thought as inferior. Like when people compare me to
T-rex. There's just no competition, we never met, we weren't
related, and still the comparing will never cease. I want to ap!
ologige, I know I must have stepped past the line for you to put a
post to me alone.
In a way, it prouds me to say this. It looks like one of the three
outcasts we've had, one of them intends to stay.
Also, any suggestions for my drawing? Comments?
from Carchardontosaur,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
My last post I didn't finish. BBD, I
have not the slightest clue about what kind of person you are, but,
you give all of us the impression you are some little four year old
running around, head held high, chest out, screaming
"IWONIWONYOULOSTBITEME!" Then again, you might be an elderly man
peeing in his pants when he types. This is the internet, you give
people the impression of who you are by what escapes your fingers
and transfers onto the screen. We don't know you, but we do know
you must be a truly mean-spirited person to say you are right and
everyone else here is wrong. For once, try to, rather than look for
someone that agrees with you, open your eyes and see what other
people might think. Just because dinosaurs have been extinct for
millions of years you think that whatever you say is right, and for
all we know you are, for all we know brad's story in the fanfic
section is entirely the truth. No one here hates you, we can't
because none of us have met you. Listen to others opinions, in the big picture
it can make a significant difference.
from Carchardontosaur,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
JC, do you have any info on the Mongoose
Lemur?
from firebird,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
I'll check and see later this afternoon - right now I have 808 mail message in my mail box to wade through. JC
I've put up a drawing. It's not as good
as any of honky's but I think it turned out more or less ok.
Needless to say I am a better author than I am an artist. I have
posted chapter six of EIFAR. It's kinda short but it's a more or
less good battle type chapter. Anyoone who dosn't like raptors will
like this chapter.
BBD, you seriously could use some help on understanding what we're
trying to get through to you. What I am about to say I am speaking
for everyone here. You not only didn't win, you just shoved your
ego level up. I dare you to point to one person in this chatroom
other than yourself that is trying to be mean or make you feel bad.
I speak in the place of everyone here as I said before, and no one
here is trying to do that other than you. You probably spend your
free time making a list of ridiculous comments. Needless to say,
you are not a paleontologist, else you would have more sense than to
puff out your chest and gloat: "I
from Carchardontosaur,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
I have posted both my drawings and
chapter six of my EIFAR! I, as always, am looking for comments and
suggestions. Chapter six is short but it's a pretty good battle
scene.
from Carchardontosaur,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
First of all carcharodontosaur, I want
to say thank you VERY much. Second, Im not in bring it on mode. I
said my opinion, then I get jumped in my chest by a group with the
name calling and nitpicking. I did take criticism and accepted it
from honkie tong, but when I point out a mistake someone has
made....then a whole bunch of alter egos jumps at me with the
moronity as you put it, and basically tells me Im an idiot, I dont
know anything, Im spreading false info etc. when Im not. If im not
sure about it, I dont say anything but questions or what I think
about it. Like creodonts, reptiles and some others. But my view
was(and Im JUST restating it for carcharodontosaur) Dromaeosaurs
were a deadlier dinosaur than tyrannosaurs. Period. Thats all. Then
I get seriously attacked. The little group here claimed I said such
things as "Any raptor can take a !T.REX!, Raptors were more
successful, there were 7 ton raptors, raptors could cut bone,
raptors were superfast, Im a raptor fan and tyrannosaur fans I can beat," etc. Now
do you see why I became slightly defensive. Now if I was talking to
you car. I wouldnt have said "I won", but the morons in here dont
understand the phrase "My logical standpoints make more sense than
yours by common sense". Everythin I say isnt right, and all my
opinions isnt right. But for this arguement, I used pure logic.
Logic and mathematics can make opinions and theories fact. Im not
vain, or arrogant or anything carch., just think about my view
slowly, logically and mix it with facts. I studied on raptors and
raptor claws, tyrannosaur speed and all the like and I restudied. My
arguement was not challenged, all that was challenged were mutated
strains of what I said. Then when it was challenged. I took it, said
ok, restudied, said a question and then a thought, and of course no
reply, just insults and nitpicks. Carch, dont take sides please, and
dont realize Im not what you think, I just became defensive
an I told you why. I can take criticism and corrections too man,
but when I get very weak and petty corrections that are based on
small and "zoom dinosaur clique" group opinions, well you think
about man. I took corrections about the arms, but why didnt anyone
take factual corrections from me? Like Levine saying all male cats
are smaller than the females. If you know anything about the
carnivore order, you would know that NEVER happens and never has. I
corrected him, and magically, a whole bunch of alteregos jumped on
me along with honkie tong,Lilian and some other clown. I just want
you to understand man. Just understand and realize. Put yourself in
my place in here.
from BBD,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
Oh yes, I have thought of the perfect
way to describe BBD's behaviour. It's like two people playing chess
in an international contest, and one sucddenly stands up and
declares he had won even before the ame is over. Is his victory
vaild? It's not anymore vaild than BBD's. By doing so, the chest
player only hurts his own game.
But I guess BBD's that. He cannot bear the thought of losing and
must declare a false victory and FORCE other people to agree with
him. But in actual fact. Those people sitting in "dark rooms" as you
describe as actually sitting back and laughing at your nice little
facade-show. I don't usually engage in debates but when I see this
happening, I must intervine. I think BBD is probally a insecure
person who needs people to affirm their place in soceity. When
nobody does that, he has to FORCE others to do so. It's hardly
science here. Notice how BBD shout to the whole world that people
are trying to make him feel bad? He's actually a very soft person
who tries to act tough by saying a threat dosent affect him. Well
it's good, we can't all be soft....but in BBD's case, the threat
does not exist. Whatever that happened was self generated. BBD
invoked those responses. Nobody is going all out to get him. It just
shows his insecurity. I'm sorry I have to say this, but this is FD
playing your personal shrink. No insult intended.
from FD,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
You know, BBD's argument of the
Tyrannosaurus fans losing because they like Tyrannosaurus is as good
as Jack Horner saying that Tyrannosaurus was a scavenger because
Tyrannosaurus fans like to think of it as a hunter-scavenger. This
is hardly a vaild argument. BBD, before you accuse the Tyrannosaurus
fans of being biased towards their favourite dinosaur, look at
yourself. I have read your eariler posts and concluded you are no
better. I have noticed the Giganotosaurus arms debate. And its
obvious you know very little about Giganotosaurus in the first
place, stating that it had bigger arms. When proven wrong with
facts, you use an excuse that its arms were the shorter and as
strong as Tyrannosaurus. Which is all untrue. You would have made
yourself look better if you had admitited you were wrong back then.
>From this incident, I have concluded that you are probally as
favoured and have as much dogmaticism about your Raptor ideas.
Meaning you were no better judge of the situtation than the
Tyrannosaurus fans you accuse of being so. And also that stuff about
imaginary people and asking people to get sunshine. Do you know how
badly it hurts your case? This debate by my counts is not settled
and far from over. By dropping it like this and screaming to whole
world you have won is an extremely dumb thing to do. In essence, you
have lost. I'm sorry, but you have lost. Jack Horner or Robert
Bakker did not go around saying things like I won! I'm right. Those
people are wrong. You, with your character, is hardly the person to
quote them.
from FD,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
Go ahead, contuine to deny the obvious.
Tyrannosaur fans,(or at least that's what we have grown used to
adressing you as) there really are no fixed ideas in plaeontology,
but I'll say you are far more mature and levelheaded that a
particular individual here by the odd and unimpressive name of BBD.
BBD reminds me more of those American dim-witted biker people who
spend more time brawling in bars than engaging in serious talk. Or
at least I assume he shares that mentaility.
from Levine,
age 24,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
I think you have underquoted Bakker.
Bakker said that Tyrannosaurus, capable of running up to 70
kilometers an hour and with jaws capable of putting up to 15,000
pounds of pressure, was the deadilest predator tht ever emerged in
all of dinosauria. In this argument, the rational thinking and smart
acting Tyrannosaurus fans won, your oversized and overinflated ego
lost. I'm really not a mean person, nor am I a Tyrannosaur fan but
sometimes, we have to fight fire with fire. BBD is really getting
out of hand. Come to think of it...only you say you won. Everybody
is saying the Tyrannosaur fans won, and so do I. BBD, I have
thirteen words for you: "Instead of dissing other people to fuel
your ego, go get A LIFE!"
from Jon F,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
Brad, I did not know this was the
zoomdinosaurs.com club. In fact, this is how kids(expecaly you)
suggest things! If it opens a can of worms, I will tell JC to add a
new policy. And one more thing. It does not have to be addressed to
cooldinos.com. Besides, there is a voting page all reddy. By the
way, the next Dino-show-us is not going to be a thanksgiving
episode. Me and Sue dicided to have the next episode to be just a
regular party and the folowing one a holiday special. I am also
planning on beginning a dinosaur novel. All 3 will come out as sone
as posible.
from Reuben B.,
age 7,
Needham,
MA,
USA;
December 3, 2000
Im not taking sides or anything, but I
was reading Bakkers books. Raptors were agile and all that stuff BBD
said. I saw that movie "T.Rex" that was very factual, and T.rex was
really fast, but not as fast as a raptor the same size. IM NEUTRAL.
I know raptors werent the same size at the same time, but he said if
a raptor was the same size. Then a pantherine couldnt take
hyaenodont unless the creodont was smaller. Theres no arguements
there except for the sake of arguing, and I hate arguing and
fighting. Levine, I KNOW my mammals, but I like dinosaurs too.
Restudy your logics and mammals man. Im not against you levine. BBD,
just stop trying to prove your point, not many are listening, just
arguing, its pointless. but I think it kinda makes since except
there were no 7 ton raptors. It would sound better if you said
something like a 20ft tyrannosaur against a 20ft raptor though. If
the tyrannosaur got one of those arms or tail, its over.But still,
whos
listening?
from monkeyman,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
Now dont get angry cuz my arguement
stands. And it does. Bakker did say raptor claws could cut, and they
are like giant cat claws in basic form, and cat claws cut VERY well
like knives. Nobody could attack my arguement, and said I was saying
something I wasnt saying. Like I said, "A raptor 7 tons pitted
against a 7 ton tyrannosaur. I think a raptor could win cuz hes
faster with longer reach, HUGE claws and greater agility with faster
reflexes." Now that is Plain fact about raptors. No theories or
nothing. Facts deduced from the bones. And since were talking about
paleontology talk, insulting another is not there either, to JUST
insult and not put your view forward, and only arguing your point in
a group? Haha! (not to mention the "cuz the group agrees, its right"
mentality, PLEASE, group thought dinosaurs were lizards) All you
people have to say is insults and that exposes how simple and weak
minded plus immature you really are. Please just keep your comments to yourselves. And Levine, well I dont have to say
anything there. Hahahaaaa!
from BBD,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
O.K. I havn't been in here for awhile.
WHAT'S GOING ON!?!
from firebird,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
Guys guys guys, I don't really think BBD
believes in his own victory. After a while, his male mind will clear
and he will be forced to conceed our view. It's common reaction of
self proclaimed "Alpha" males like BBD. They don't really argue with
facts, they see anybody questioning their views as a challange to
his "Alpha" position in the pack. That's why he goes to the extent
of using 7-ton raptors to argue. It's all but a desperate attempt to
save his "Alpha" male position.
Outwardly he claims he wins but inwardly he is an emotional wreck
that wished he had never partaken in this furball. It's typical
"Alpha" male behaviour... I have seen alot of "Alpha" males before.
Examples include Coolcat and Mr Rogers. "Beta" males are more
friendly and desirable as they are not as egoistic as "Alpha" males.
Examples include Brad, Carchardontosaur, Honkie Tong and just about
everyone else in this room that dosen't go atoung
screaming.
from Lillian Tay,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
Err, JC, if you look closely at the
latest Old Blood, you would notice it says "Sudden Change" instead
of " Implications" for the title in the header page, can anything
be done about it?
Oh yes BBD, you're sure misguided and wrong. As Carchardontosaur
said, the words "I won" mean hardly anything about it. Not only did
you lose this debate, you made yourself look like a total fool
infront of all of us. Keep this up and everybody will ignore you and
you can go find another chatroom to get your tiny ego boosted. I'd
hate to take sides, but you are hardly the side I want to take. Even
raptor fans disagree with you. I wonder where you got the words "I
won" from. After all that rubbish about Giganotosaurus having bigger
arms, you think even anybody in the world will take you seriously?
No. If anything, you only made your opponents look good, my you are
really a messed up individual. Losing the battle and then losing the
war.....
from Billy Macdraw,
age 18,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
I fixed it. JC
Actually, you're right. If BBD hadn't
responded so negatively to some challanges to his posts, the
situtation wouldn't have spiraled out of control. Well, things are
so bad not that BBD has to declare himself the winner to prevent
himself from cracking dwon into tears. If you are me who the real
winners are here...WE'RE THE WINNERS! (Opps got to carries
away.)
from Honkie Tong,
age 16,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
You won? Says who? Your mama? Well, BBD,
your mama says NO!
from Your Mama,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
I have no idea what he's talking about,
but I guess you are right. He has won more than he lost. He has won
the title for being the most irration person but lost just about the
respect about everyone else. (Including your so called" made up
people")
He kinda reminds me of this kid that thought the raptors were
better, when I argued him out of commision, he just pinched his ears
and kept singing " I cannot hear you, I cannot hear you." Really
BBD, you really sound like that. But then again, you're all
Americans.....I never figured poeople like you out.
from Honkie Tong,
age 16,
?,
?,
?;
December 3, 2000
Hi All!!!!
i'm new!?! Just say hi that's all!!
:)
from Hupia,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 2, 2000
Ok BBD, now I'm taking sides. You just
don't know when to quit now, do you? I hate to say it, well, maybe
I don't hate to say it, but you lost more so than you won. The
words "I won" are not in a palentologist's vocab. There is so
little we can prove, and we will never know if you are as right as
you say.
from Carchardontosaur,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 2, 2000
Guys, was the T-Rex a preditor or
scavenger? Why?
from ???,
age ???,
???,
???,
USA;
December 2, 2000
PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!! STOP THIS MORONITY
NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is so rediculous! Why is this turning into
make fun of BBD? You guys really know how to make a person feel
bad. I am not taking sides. Here is something to think about: One,
everyone share their opinions at their leisure as long as they are
kind. BBD, as much as I hate to seem mean, you really need some
help on your social skills. Someone corrcts you and your brain goes
into "Bring it on" mode. I don't want to seem at all like I'm
trying to drive you away, I appreciate your veiws. Still, if you
post something you can't just guarantee it is right. Think about
this, and this goes for everyone. WHAT DID YOU DO IN THIS? THIS IN
PARTICULAR GOES FOR YOU BBD.
from Carchardontosaur,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 2, 2000
I'm leaving in 30 minutes to go and scan
my pictures. They're not superior, but I think they are sorta
good.
from Carchardontosaur,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 2, 2000
This argument is over. Stop messing with
me now and get over it. I won.
from BBD,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 2, 2000
Suchomimus vs Baryonyx
Well, according to my research, I heard that scientists think that
they were the same dinosaur. I'll keep researchin' that, and about
fight I don't know who would win, but I'd be a pretty good
battle.
from Bryan,
age 11,
?,
?,
?;
December 2, 2000
Pterosaurs died out 65 million years
ago, along with
the dinosaurs and many other animals. The long-tailed
pterosaurs all died out at the end of the Jurassic,
but the short-tailed pterosaurs, the pterodactyloids,
survived and went from strength to strength. After
the Jurassic came the Cretaceous Period. It was warmer
and sea levels rose to cover much of the land.
Continets slowly drifted across the globe, crashed
into each other and gradually formed huge moutain
ranges. The pterodactyloids made the most of these new
conditions. There were many different kinds of
pterodactyloids pterosaur, but they all had two things
in common-- short tails and long, narrow wings. From
far away, they must have looked like soaring seabirds
such as gulls and albatrosses. In fact, during he
Cretaceous Period, birds were becoming more common.
For a time, they shared the skies with the pterosaurs.
Pterodactyloids grew larger during the Cretaceous
Period. They also became better at flying and gliding.
To save energy, they glided huge distances without
flapping their wings. Warm air currents blowing up
hillsides and mountains carried some pterodactyls
along, just like hangliders today. Others glided over
the vast oceans and developed strange beaks for
feeding on plankton (minute sea creatures), fish or
seashore shellfish. These flying reptiles may have fed
and protected their young in the same way the seagulls
look after their chicks on cliff nests today. After
they hatched from their eggs, baby pterosaurs could
not fly because their heads were too big and their
wings were too small. So one or both parents probably
brought the young food and watched over them until
their wings were strong enough to fly and they were
old enough to fend for themselves. One of the last
pterosaurs was the spectacular Quetzalcoatlus, named
after the traditional Mexican feathered snake-god
Quetzalcoatl. This huge creature, its head longer then
a man, was probably as big as a flying animal which it
lived. Quetzalcoatlus was so big that it could not
have taken off without help from the winds whistling
through the mountains and canyons of Texas, USA. Once
in the air, it could glide on the air currents for a
long time.
from Bryan,
age 11,
?,
?,
?;
December 2, 2000
Where can we find other dinosar websites
anybody?Me Thomas and my sister Joanne need other websites on
dinosaurs.Anybody know any?
from Thomas,
age 8,
Manchester,
?,
England;
December 2, 2000
THANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOUTHNAKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOUTHTHANKYOUANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYTHANKYOUOUTHANKYOU,
(One reboot later) Umm, where can you get Studio Max in Singapore?
My school has it but I can't get it from them until next year(duh!).
I've been looking for Max for the better part of the year. Nice
models. Again, thanks for telling me where to get the model!
Thanks!
from DW,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 2, 2000
Well the little group shows favoritism
to tyrannosaurs and will not attack my arguement. Dr.Bakker DID
write that raptors were highly agile no matter the size and kick
boxers with claws that COULD CUT LIKE KNIVES! Haaa! Built like a cat
claw and cat claws can cut just as good as hook. Those are giant
claws on a raptor and Bakker said raptors hands could work like
carving knives or sickles. You all attack me and distorted versions
of my arguement not the true argument. Haha. Its obvious I won this
round with logic and your favoritsm/dogmaticism lost. Get over your
loss. To Levine and Lilian T. and the little ppl who make up
characters, I bet your doiung all this big bad talking in a dark
little computer room, and how do you have all this time to be on
here if your in college? Get a life, go out and breathe some fresh
air and sunshine. Thats spelled S-U-N-S-H-I-N-E.
from BBD,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 2, 2000
I don't mean to nitpick Honkie, but I
think Tyrannosaurus would have not made it up to 50kph. 48.8 is a
more realistic number.
But that would still make it faster than the 7-ton raptor, nice
simulation by the way, where did you can AutoCAD?
from FD,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 2, 2000
Stand down son, you're out of line.
Prehaps you have forgotten that this is not an American chatroom but
an international chatroom. You are making us Americans look very bad
in front of the entire world. By the way, I really hope you can
argue with facts and not by imaginary T-rex sized raptors. They did
not exist. Your arguments run parallel to arguing the Iraqi army was
deadiler if its T-72 tanks had lazer rangefinders and 120mm
smoothbore guns. The raptors never reached T-rex size, so that
argument cannot stand as it did nto exist in the first place.
BBD, your arguments have more holes than a target ship, not to
mention your raw hostility. You can go down with your ship- and be
remembered as a vailant but misguided person or you could abandon
your ship and damage your pride for the truth. Face it, you are
surrounded, outgunned, outnumbered and with no support. If you
contuined to fight such a pitched battle, well, mercy on your
soul.
from Sgt Illhalo,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 2, 2000
Well, I am intrested in this debate? Can
I join in? What's this about a 7-ton raptor? Does this even exist?
Anyway, I think Tyrannosaurus was certainly the deadilest predator,
if you are talking about raw deadlyness, T.rex certainly had the
most for a land based dinosaur. I think he would certainly kill any
raptor, 7-ton or not.
from Kinder Surprise,
age 13,
Mansfeild,
Texas,
USA;
December 2, 2000
Okay, I have generated a raptor to your designs, and the simulation
proves
it's impossible for the 7-ton raptor to work. Here's how:
Firstly, the raptors have one of the shortest tibiae and metatarsals
of any
land based predatory dinosaur. This is not a problem for small
raptors but
imposes serious implications on a 7-ton raptor. The problem is
weight. The
raptor body plan was never designed to carry that much weight and
its not
surprising things can go seriously wrong. Firstly, the short and
broad
tibiae and metatarsals of the raptor will provide very little
leverage to
move all that bulk, of course it'll be able to walk, but sauropod
style. At
best at 15 kilometers hours at top speed. One need to know that
Tyrannosaurus was capable of doing 50.
Another problem. This 7-ton raptor will not be capable of
jumping(for
obvious reasons) nor effective kicking. The reason lies in weight
redistribution. If a small raptor kicks, its displacing about 15
kilos of
weight. If the 7-ton raptor kicks, it will redistribute about a ton
of
weight! If it tried kicking like a small raptor would, it'll tip
over to its
side. Notice the prints of big predatory dinos? Their three toes are
spread
out wide to aid in a big base. Now our 7-ton raptor would use only
two toes
to do the task. Of course it could kick, but the highest would be to
the
knee, not quite enough to gore a Tyrannosaur like a triceratops
would.
And what about those slashing claws on the forelimbs? Well, the
simulation
shows it would be hard to slash effectively with those arms in a
seven ton
raptor. If you'll look at the big carnivores like Tyrannosaurus and
Giganotosaurus, you would notice that their arms have been reduced
leave
weight for the head. If a seven-ton raptor decides to swipe, it
would also
experience serious balance problems by displacing about 900kilos of
weight
in very short order. Of course it's possible for a large predatory
dino to
have big forelimbs, but they literally lose a head in the process to
make up
weight. Physics plays a bigger role in how big carnivores look than
in small
ones.
You see, there's nothing wrong with the raptor body plan, the
problem is in
your plan. Mother Nature had a good reason for keeping the raptors
small and
this would be it. If a raptor was to be around 7 tons, it would have
to lose
that sickle claw and grow a third toe for a broad, stable base.
Also, the
raptor would have to have a new leg of slender and long tibiae and
metatarsals. The limbs will have to be reduced if the raptor is
going to
rely on it's jaws to kill. In the end, you end up getting something
looking
like a Tyrannosaurid. It's impossible not to undergo drastic change
if
you're going to increase in size. Tyrannosaurus is actually a
descendant of
a group of small predatory dinosaurs not too unlike the small
raptors, but
in increasing the size, it had to undergo drastic change. It would
also be
the same for the raptors. Long story short, if you have a seven ton
raptor
design, it has to bee altered so drastically to work that it would
not be
called a raptor after that.
Thank you
from Honkie Tong,
age 16,
?,
?,
?;
Dec. 1, 2000
Anyway, the results of the poll at
freevote.com/booth/dinosaurs is out. Here are the results:
Agreed with the Tyrannosaur fans:
Agreed that another dinosaur species is far deadiler:
Agreed with BBD:
Okay, according to Democrazy (I didn't spell it wrongly!), the win
goes to the Tyrannosaur fans, with a margin of 199 votes. Second
place is taken by the people who believe that another dinosaur was
deadiler and third place goes to BBD. I will be changing the topic
to who was the king of the herbivorous dinosaurs, so please go to
freevote.com/booth/dinosaurs to vote!
266 Votes, 79.8 percent
48 Votes, 14.4 percent
19 Votes, 5.7 percent
from Volta,
age 15,
?,
Florida,
USA;
December 2, 2000
Anyway, thanks BBD, you were the last
person I had expected to compliment my computer model. I thought it
was very jury-rigged and badly done, thanks anyway.
from Honkie Tong,
age 16,
?,
?,
?;
December 1, 2000
Well, Carchardontosaur, I say you better
post it fast, cos I'm nto posting anymore until you do. The fanpic
page is not a "HT" page.
from Honkie Tong,
age 16,
?,
?,
?;
December 1, 2000
In that case I guess most of BBD's posts
have to be removed. He really is testing everybody's patience over
here. Anyway, have you gotten my simulation?
from Honkie Tong,
age 16,
?,
?,
?;
December 1, 2000
Yes, it's online. JC
Sorry 'bout the delay on my drawings.
Tomorrow I will be able to go to a scanner.
I have an interesting theory I would like to put out there. Wether
it's true or not you be the judge. Perhaps that some hadrosaurs
could have used their crests as cooling agents? Lemme explain. A
lambeosaur for instance bends down, making masses of blood rush to
it's head. Providing the head didn't cool off quickly, the animal
would die. It would flush blood up into it's crest, and as the wind
came by the brain and head would cool.
from Carchardontosaur,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 1, 2000
Well Alvero, the dinosaurs lived on
earth.
from ?,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 1, 2000
Well, if you have really won, lets find
out, once and for all. All those who agree with the Tyrannosaur fans
say ney, if its BBD, say Aye.
from Grace,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 1, 2000
Well, I must say BBD's behaving like
those mordern day Neo-Nazis who claim they won World War 2 despite
the whole world telling them we the English won the war. I guess
BBD's one of them. It's disgraceful I tell you, seeing such a young
mind in utter and vermeant denial that he would go to the extent of
claiming I am a created character. It's a sure sign of that yankee
going dotty. Is he a democrat? That explains it if he is.
Anyway, I would like to tell everybody that BBD's last few posts
were not valid. He's nto arguing on the grounds of paleontology. Oh
yes monkeyboy(if that's your real name.) I have to tell you I swore
I saw a pantherine called Panteria Leo kill a hyaenodont some time
ago. Are you refering to the cenozoic or modern
forms?
from Levine,
age 24,
?,
?,
?;
December 1, 2000
Hey, no problam BBD, I'll generate a
7ton raptor for you. Give a a few hours. Is it a scaled up raptor?
Which do you want? A skaled up dieno or a scaled up
velo?
from Honkie Tong,
age 16,
?,
?,
?;
December 1, 2000
Ignore him, he's out of his mind, as
long as we can prevent others from listening to him. Look at
freevote, WE'VE WONNNNNNNN!
from Lilian Tay,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 1, 2000
Well, the next old blood is out. It's
shorter though.
from Billy Macdraw,
age 18,
?,
?,
?;
December 1, 2000
HAHAHAHA!!!! Yes lilian T. Im about to
be blown away by 5 or 6 ppl and ALLLLL there alteregos and made up
characters! Hahaha! Logic aint so common in here. Id say theres
about 10 or more ppl on here. Hey guys, again I say, you attack me
more than the argument showing Ive won. Poor kids.
from BBD,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 1, 2000
There is no way a pantherine could kill
a hyeanodont. Both of them the same size, the hyaenodont with that
big ol head and teeth and the panthering with those little claws and
small head. You are jus trying to argue or you dont know youz
cenozoic mammals Levine!
from monkeyman,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 1, 2000
Actually, I'm at school. I no longer
have internet access at my home, but I'm hoping its just temporary.
I have nothing to say about this raptor/T. rex thing.
from Brad,
age 13,
Fenelon Falls,
ON,
Canada;
December 1, 2000
WHERE THE DINOSAURS LIVE?
from alvaro m.,
age 11,
INDIO,
CALIFORNIA,
U.S.A;
December 1, 2000
Excellent computer models indeed! A
tyrannosaurus rex could rip apart a deinonych. But since Ive been
saying a 7ton tyrannosaur against a 7ton raptor, and noone will go
ahead on that argument. AND since Im attacked more than the argument
itself by so many alteregos and yall insist Im a raptor fan when Im
not simply and basically shows in fact Ive won this arguement. Thanx
for trying to hurt my feelings! You let me know Ive WON! I feel so
good.
from BBD,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 1, 2000
The shape of the backward facing pubis
(one of the hip bones) indicates that dromaeosaurs sat upright like
dogs, rather than on their undersides like tyrannosaurs or modern
birds. The base of the tail was extremely flexible, capable of
bending through ninety degrees in most directions, and probably
served as a balancing rod for changing direction in a fast run, just
as modern cheetahs use their long tails. Dromaeosaurs were NOT the
fastest dinosaurs, as indicated by the structure of their legs
(short ankles, long femora), although they could certainly have
outrun a human, but not a Tyrannosaurus. It has been said (by Dr
Thomas Holtz Jr I think) that dromaeosaur evolution had sacrificed
speed for agility. Rather than rely only on speed like a modern
cheetah, they may have ambushed prey like other modern cats, using a
quick "grapple and slash" technique. Their sharp claws, grasping
forehands, and counter balancing tails suggest to me that small
dromaeosaurs may have been good climbers, a view shared by Dr Robert
Bakker in his book Raptor Red.
from Lubin,
age 15,
Sidney,
?,
Australia;
December 1, 2000
Sauropods are an enigma. We know their
bodies were huge and their brains were small. We wonder how they
got so big and what kind of a job those tiny brains did of managing
all that mass. They appear to have been massive protein sources,
devoid of obvious defenses and readily harvested by any carnivore.
We marvel at their ability to get enough food through their tiny
mouths to nourish themselves. Yet they were extremely successful,
dominating the Jurassic and in some places lasting until the end of
the Cretaceous. Let's take a look at these issues. Were they
really a problem for these giants, or is the problem ours for
failing to understand how they evolved to take advantage of their
world? Dimwitted or not, I think I can propose a reason for their
success.
We wonder how these giant meat sources defended themselves against
hungry and well armed predators. It has been suggested that they
used their tails as whips and that is certainly plausible. Anyone
who has ever tried to handle a two pound iguana that wants to be
left alone knows how much havoc a flailing tail can wreak. An
advantage of this defense is that it would not require a lot of
mental power to be effective. They also could have used their
massive necks and heads as clubs. A predator would have had to be
very lucky to grab a neck as it swung by without getting slapped
into the next era. The largest contemporary carnivores were a
fraction of the weight of a medium sized sauropod and I doubt that
any predator would ever have attacked a fully grown adult. The
penalty for such a rash act would likely have been pulverization.
As a modern example, elephants have no serious predators unless they
are very young or very sick. Their mere size is too intimidating.
Now young sauropods would have been in jeopardy until they put on a lot
of weight. Herds certainly could have provided some security,
although I suspect that the greatest threat to growing up would have
involved getting stepped on by their elders. Mortality was probably
very high when they were young. They may have made up for this by
building a lot of nests and laying a lot of eggs. After all, there
is a practical limit to egg size which is approached in much smaller
animals than sauropods, but a huge dinosaur could make a huge number
of eggs without spending very much energy relative to her size.
Now about that size... One of the great mysteries about these
long-necked giants is how they managed to get enough nutrition to
grow and sustain their incredible bulk. Most of the plants
available to them were probably tough, such as conifers and cycads.
The tender deciduous leaves and grasses that nourish our
contemporary large herbivores had not yet evolved. In addition to
the marginal quality of their food supplies, their harvesting
eqiupment seemed marginal at best. Their dentition was generally
rake-like arrays of pencil shaped teeth. Some had spoon shaped
nippers, but nothing to chop up the vegetation so it could be
exposed to their digestive juices. They probably did some
additional grinding in their crops, using gastroliths to mash the
foliage their teeth provided. Even at that, they would still have
required a very complex gut to process this type of plant material
with its low nutritional value. Did they develop multichambered
stomachs and use their gastroliths for pulping as effectively as modern ruminants use complex
teeth to chew their cud? Maybe, but I can suggest an easier
solution to the need for extended digestive processing. Refection:
don't take two bites at the apple; just eat the apple twice. Hind
gut fermentation uses a large cecum as a storage vat that allows
bacteria to work over tough plant food and break it down to usable
nutrients. There is still a problem. The cecum's walls are not
good for absorption of anything but water. Nutrient assimilation
has to occur in the small intestine, but to get to the cecum for the
all-important bacterial processing, the food has already gone
through the small bowel. Since the intestinal tract is a one-way
system, there is only one way for the food to get back to where it
will do any good. It has to go out and get back in again.
Refection is used successfully by many animals, including rabbits,
langurs and to some extent, elephants. By using their colons to do
most
of the work, the giant dinosaurs could get away with simple teeth.
They would have had to rake the first time and scoop the second, but
neither requires particularly strong or complex dentition. It may
have been an advantage for these animals to have a small brain if
this was the daily culinary experience they had to to expect. This
type of nutrition may also explain the structure of sauropod necks.
Traditionally, we think that they evolved long necks in order to
reach leaves high in trees. Obviously they were long, but in many
cases, careful analysis of their skeletons indicates that they were
not really able to raise their heads very far at all. Perhaps they
evolved to reach around rather than up. This may provide another
weapon for their defensive arsenals. Toxic halitosis could have had
a protective effect, even when they were babies. Perhaps this seems
rather gross to you, but that is your penalty for having such a
large brain.
How large does a brain have to be? Although we usually feel that as
a body gets larger the brain must also expand, we really have no
definite basis for that assumption. A brain has a lot of functions,
but many of them involve automatic behavior. An order to breathe or
a signal to release a hormone can be performed by a small number of
nerve cells and yet have a major effect on a distant organ as a
large muscle unit reacts or a distant gland releases large supply of
an active substance. An order for a leg to walk can require the
same number of brain cells in a large animal as in a small one, it's
just that larger muscles are following the orders. Delicacy of
movement and fine motor coordination certainly benefit from more
neurons, but when the beast being controlled weighs forty tons or
more, does delicacy really matter? At that size, an animal makes
its own path rather than worrying about staying on a trail. Many
functions, such as finding food and mates can be hard-wir!
ed into fairly small units of nerve tissue and still leave some room
for variability in their expression. Tiny lizards and fish, and
even insects, can show relatively complex behavior with brains the
size of a pinhead. Great intellectual function was almost certainly
lacking in Dinosaurs as it is in practically every creature known,
but that is not really a disadvantage for survival in most cases.
from Darren T.,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 1, 2000
I have observed with growing alarm the
improper useage of the term "raptor" when collectively describing a
variety of small carnivorous dinosaurs. This term is in widespread
use in the popular press, movies, books, and now,after attending
Dinofest'2000 I see it is being used as a descriptive term in
scientific presentations and ultimately I guess it will appear in
their scientific publications too. Am I the only one who objects to
the use of the term "raptor" for small theropod dinosaurs?
"Raptor" when used in reference to dinosaurs is no doubt a
contraction of_Velociraptor_, the name of the dinosaurs featured so
prominently in Jurassic Park_. The recent proliferation of dinosaur
names rooted in -raptor hasn't helped much, either
from Darren T.,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 1, 2000
http://www.nctimes.net/~tyra-rex/raptor.html is a cool webpage, it
charts the "raptor revision" going on in
paleontology.
from Darren T.,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 1, 2000
Don't u pple have to sleep? It's
allready 2 am!
from ?,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 1, 2000
Very good computer model, how did you do
it?
Anyway, the next old blood is going to be delayed. You can vote for
this debate at freevote.com/booth/dinosaurs. Lets not argue anymore,
it's dissing off people coming here to talk about other things.
Frankly, I have much better things to do than to prove a prefectly
proveable theory that Tyrannosaurus was the deadilest.
Anyway where is Brad? BBD must have dised him off. BBD, you're one
inconciderate fellow. Ever wondered why everybody's so mean to you?
Well, before you blame others, look at yourself first....you're
discusting.
from Billy Macdraw,
age 18,
?,
?,
?;
December 1, 2000
Yo man, I am a Raptr fan but I aint' no
voting for BBD man, BBD's mean dude man, I am his is no friends yo!
You T-rexa fans are correct mano, BBD's wrong mano. Raptr is my
favoutire dinosaur mano.
(Sorry mano, I got bad case of insomma.)
from Raptr fan,
age 15,
Miami,
Florida,
USA;
December 1, 2000
Wow, this debate is going extreme! Even
computer models have been made!
Anyway, I went to freevote to vote for the Tyrannosaurus fans as I
felt they did better in this debate.
from Norman,
age ?,
?,
?,
?;
December 1, 2000
Go to previous DinoTalk messages
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